Player Drop Off and Accessibility/Diffculty

[Kohashi]

I can tell who doesn't play healer from the amount of people here throwing their hands up in the air and saying even if you res someone, you wipe. In Ultimates, maybe, but most savages have enough wiggle room to make it so healers can EASILY res the dps into the DPS' correct position, then run/dash over to their own position. Which is the skill aspect. But yeah, if you're a non-support DPS you're mostly snoozing lol.

It depends on the timing. Savage is more lenient, but even there, there are limited times when you can save the run. It also vastly depends on which turn of the tier it is. The higher you go, the fewer opportunities you get; however, I will say that good healers absolutely make a lot of difference.

[0blivion]

It depends on the timing. Savage is more lenient, but even there, there are limited times when you can save the run. It also vastly depends on which turn of the tier it is. The higher you go, the fewer opportunities you get; however, I will say that good healers absolutely make a lot of difference.

I do agree with that take! The current tier is weird because M6S is very much a "you can die until add phase and after add phase, not in add phase though" fight, meanwhile M4S from last tier was such a pushover that unless you failed Sunrise or EE2 you could recover almost anything. It does get nasty from M7S though, lol. But yeah Idk, the game did get dumbed down, but the attention span of the average FFXIV player is low enough that healers won't run out of stuff to do for a while... unless you're in a static because then most things will go smoothly.

[Kohashi]

I do agree with that take! The current tier is weird because M6S is very much a "you can die until add phase and after add phase, not in add phase though" fight, meanwhile M4S from last tier was such a pushover that unless you failed Sunrise or EE2 you could recover almost anything. It does get nasty from M7S though, lol. But yeah Idk, the game did get dumbed down, but the attention span of the average FFXIV player is low enough that healers won't run out of stuff to do for a while... unless you're in a static because then most things will go smoothly.

M6S is not so much when people die, but who dies. If it's the tanks, well, GL and fingers crossed! Everyone else is not that critical. You can still save the run, including missing towers, either with extra mits for the spicy dot or tank LB.

M4s did have some key moments when you had to have everyone. EE2, more than EE1, then it was Cannons, followed by transition with short opportunities for raises, because the last AOE was a semi body check, and then as soon as you changed the platform, you had another soft body check. Pvp Cannons was funny but you could still get lucky and have 1 healer survive and raise everyone. Because of how Cannons functioned. Towers+ bait followed by dodging to the safe side, and then into the second towers + baits, so you did have a lot of opportunities to get people up.

I do have to say, M7S did not have a lot of body checks, but more of a mitigation + healing check + watch where you stand, or you won't beat enrage.

As for statics, I dunno man. I have been in statics that somehow managed to be worse than the average PF, and I do have to say, that's something of an achievement on its own right.

[Tuchkin]

Another such topic? Means... It's not just one or two players who are worried about this. But for some reason, discussions about raids, savage, and other high-level activities immediately begin. However, people don't usually leave the game because of them - these are the ones who don't leave, but those who couldn't master the story content required for your character leave. The scheme works fine here: I hate it, I WON'T do it again. I think you've all forgotten why games exist at all (hint: for fun). From personal experience (and I've accumulated a lot over the decade of the game), a lot of my friends quit the game precisely because of the last add-on dungeons, specifically their crazy mechanics.

[Supersnow845]

Another such topic? Means... It's not just one or two players who are worried about this. But for some reason, discussions about raids, savage, and other high-level activities immediately begin. However, people don't usually leave the game because of them - these are the ones who don't leave, but those who couldn't master the story content required for your character leave. The scheme works fine here: I hate it, I WON'T do it again. I think you've all forgotten why games exist at all (hint: for fun). From personal experience (and I've accumulated a lot over the decade of the game), a lot of my friends quit the game precisely because of the last add-on dungeons, specifically their crazy mechanics.

Fun is at the core of everything, fun is why a lot of people hated EW because of how damn easy it was which was why people wanted DT to be harder

The fun of the people at the absolute floor is not the only consideration in this discussion, we all want to have fun

[ViinaS]

[...] a lot of my friends quit the game precisely because of the last add-on dungeons, specifically their crazy mechanics.

That's not the dungeons fault which was still easy for a dungeon at level cap.
And if your friends called those "crazy mechanics" and quit due to that then...
sorry to say, but then they lack the basic skill for playing FFXIVs base content.

The issue is also not the story (Excluding DT, man... screw DTs MSQ) but once you do all that and arrive at current content you can do that in a matter of weeks and then have to wait (and pay) for months till some recycled content comes along.

[Stroodle]

I belive he meant the miti used for ride wides yet it's still soo scripted that there is none of the freedom it doesn't feel like a clash with boss where boss actually does deal the damage healers heal and dps swirl around it solving stuff.
It's just another boring dance the same we had for 8 years and making it quicker , with souls like punishments is just tiring long term , unfun and frustrating.
Woahhh learn where to stand on certain frame of the fight ... *next patch * - woaaah learn again it's the same but gotchhh yaaa it looks diffrent nowww ... I don't know what hopes i have for 8.0 if they will keep those classes so homogenized and fights so forced to act as they want us.

For the tank mit I was talking about both, their personal single target mits that can be used on other party members that might save a life if they are low such as as ranged dps being too far away from healers (a common occurrence in raids) that might need something to live, and party mit if they notice something is missing before an incoming attack, they could use their shake/missionary/HoL/Veil or rep if its not normally supposed to be there.

But yes in general, there is not too much freedom of choice. Its either you rez here or you don't have the bodies required for the next mech and its over.

There is a few small things such as if LB3 is available, there's an incoming raidwide, the only person left is a healer, and the 2nd healer has the rez and has not accepted the rez yet, what they can do which I think is a skill in simply knowing the timing, is waiting to time the Accept button until after the raidwide has gone off (so that they themselves do not die to the raidwide) and before the instance determines the party has wiped so that they can get up and immediately LB3 to continue the run.
Another similar but slightly different example for healers would be the big raidwide coming and its just you left with an LB3, you time the LB such that it rezzes everyone and only you die, so the run can continue (and then you would get rezzed immediately afterwards). I've done this one myself in Ucob with the transition from p2 to p3, for one reason or another i was the only one left before the large hit before bahamut comes out, so I had to time the lb3 to get everyone up without them also dying to that raidwide.

[0blivion]

M6S is not so much when people die, but who dies. If it's the tanks, well, GL and fingers crossed! Everyone else is not that critical. You can still save the run, including missing towers, either with extra mits for the spicy dot or tank LB.

M4s did have some key moments when you had to have everyone. EE2, more than EE1, then it was Cannons, followed by transition with short opportunities for raises, because the last AOE was a semi body check, and then as soon as you changed the platform, you had another soft body check. Pvp Cannons was funny but you could still get lucky and have 1 healer survive and raise everyone. Because of how Cannons functioned. Towers+ bait followed by dodging to the safe side, and then into the second towers + baits, so you did have a lot of opportunities to get people up.

I do have to say, M7S did not have a lot of body checks, but more of a mitigation + healing check + watch where you stand, or you won't beat enrage.

As for statics, I dunno man. I have been in statics that somehow managed to be worse than the average PF, and I do have to say, that's something of an achievement on its own right.

I agree M6S towers are recoverable, but during add phase, I think basically anyone with "a job" needed to be alive. DMG doesn't matter now but when it did on MINE, damn that sucked. Admittedly, PF has been.... special. But also, I did hear of statics like yours and I express my sincere condolences. If I ever encounter you in PF I will be very nice to you.

[RajNish]

How is this such a bad approach? This has been a very normal thing since the beginning of gaming. Not every video game is made for everybody. If you don't like a video game or can't play it for any reason... go find one that you do enjoy or that you can play.
I've seen people cry about spiders in a horror game.. like... its a horror game... it is supposed to make you uncomfortable.

You have just demonstrated in your own example the most striking example of ableism.

Could you give me references?

SWTOR, Dread Master Calphayus, hard mode. Excellent mechanics: 4 people in the past, 4 in the future (otherwise wipe), tank swaps before boss pushed them to wall after tank receiving a debuff (otherwise wipe), escaping a raid-killing AoE as ranged dps who deals maximum damage to the boss (otherwise wipe), destroying a crystal in the right location (otherwise wipe), the need to carry seed while fighting with adds and plant it (otherwise wipe), the need to place relic on the altar (otherwise wipe), killing adds in a short time, otherwise an uncleanceable DoT (and wipe). And all of this is lore-based, smart, and you use tactics instead of running like headless chickens from AoE. MMO games are not limited to FF and the mechanics you are used to.

And in case you tell me to play one game over the other, I'll tell you right away, I've been playing both for several years, and for several years I've been wondering why the FF14 developers are so lacking in imagination.

[Neon231]

[QUOTE=RajNish;6760134]You have just demonstrated in your own example the most striking example of ableism.


Ableism??? Huh??? Not every game is made for everyone lmao. You're not going to go play League of Legends and tell them it needs to be more like Dead by Daylight.
Its a video game btw, not a necessity. You're taking it WAY too serious. Lmao.