Frontline in Recent Time

[Batbrat]

There are people who cheat with plugins, yes. That's a confirmable fact that is very very painfully easy to verify.
So that isn't a question of whether it happens or not, because it does in fact happen and thousands of little yellow school bus riders do it regularly.

That said, I've never actually noticed the people that do this in-game, so I don't think its actually very good for the most part. If you know what you're doing, you can usually outsmart them anyway. Frontlines games almost always come down to formula's. People use the same rotations. You have to both physically look at their attack animations and most importantly, listen to them as well. I'm able to stop most LB's instantly because depending on the job, I can hear when it's starting and interrupt it (some have very small interrupt windows though, so keep that in mind). You also have to generally be able to predict what they're going to do as well, which again, isnt hard when they all do the same thing anyway.

That's because jobs don't actually have that many important skills. Each job is generally going to wait on and use the same maybe 3-4 attacks over and over again. If the best skills aren't up, they run to the back and wait for the cooldown to die. So if it's a drk, right? I know they're going to stall for a bit, and then jump in to pull everyone, do a few attacks with his team, then run to the back again to heal and go back to stalling again. They will not run out again until that cooldown is up, which lets you know ok, by the time I see that drk in the front again, he will again be ready to pull. You gotta put two and two together that way, with all the jobs at once. I say this as the very thing a lot of you hate; The premade player in voice chat. We do the same tricks every time. Notice the pattern, and we're easy to interrupt.

Also as I've said before, it doesnt matter what era of FFXIV it is, Frontlines will always have groups that decimate teams and that's because higher levels of communication. Premades are talking and agreeing on what to do all at once, while the rest of you are just kind of running around aimlessly unsure of what to do and fighting alone despite being with 20 other people. You're not working together, you're not telling each other when to dump attacks, or hide and all ambush. As long as people have friends, there will always be groups that steamroll, because they're actually working together which is the entire point of Frontlines to begin with.

[Elephantality]

Premades are talking and agreeing on what to do all at once, while the rest of you are just kind of running around aimlessly unsure of what to do and fighting alone despite being with 20 other people. You're not working together, you're not telling each other when to dump attacks, or hide and all ambush. As long as people have friends, there will always be groups that steamroll, because they're actually working together which is the entire point of Frontlines to begin with.

90% of any premade I've been a part of, no voice chat, barely any communication. The last sentence is not true either, sometimes I queue up with friends, and it's just like queueing up solo. I will say, I do want to normalize working together more with randoms of course. That would be fun. Even if premades were removed, I think people can still work together regardless, the desire and willingness needs to be there.

Your individual actions dont matter. Everything is laggy and unreadable. The only thing that matter is how many more people your team have concentrated in the same place. Going anywhere else than where everyone else is results in death, so initiative is punished.

They do matter, the thing is team work is required. Regardless of how the party was formed. I actually do prefer winning fights as a team, rather than just 1v1 like in CC. I queued up solo, saw a tank initiating and getting battle high, so I just pumped them up with buffs as Bard, went pretty well, we eventually won.

[YumieYumiki]

Frontlines are just a terrible concept with a terrible implementation.

I'll never understand why people (game designers and players both) are so attracted to the concept of massive pvp fights. Do they imagine an epic war scene like in lotr or something?

There is absolutely nothing fun ever about large scale pvp. Your individual actions dont matter. Everything is laggy and unreadable. The only thing that matter is how many more people your team have concentrated in the same place. Going anywhere else than where everyone else is results in death, so initiative is punished.
(At least in wow when you play as rogue in one of the terrible "epic battleground" you can stealth away from the zerg and pick on stragglers)

On top of that the battle high system is a terrible slippery slope system, where people who win are rewarded with additional damage (see this article for a game design perspective about this: https://www.sirlin.net/articles/slip...etual-comeback - no, frontlines aren't one of the exceptional cases where this is a good thing).This eventually tip things into curbstomping territory. Curb stomping isn't fun, even when you are the one doing the curbstomping. I like to feel that my actions matter (i mean really that's the #1 thing i crave from pvp), rather than winning fights because a bonus says so.

Finally the "limit break" system is also crap. I thoroughly dislike ultimates systems, where the game grants you a spectacular i-win button just for putting in time. Again I want to win because I cornered my adversary through clever use of cool downs, not because the game says it's my turn to one shot somebody.

[Jeeqbit]

Do they imagine an epic war scene like in lotr or something?

It does feel like one.

There is absolutely nothing fun ever about large scale pvp.

To me it's the social aspect. Now, not everyone will understand what I mean by this when few people talk. It's something you can read from the feeling of doing it with other players and their social interaction is often just their actions and movement. Example is if you decide to stay somewhere to guard/claim a node, someone may decide to stay with you, and that entire interaction happens through movement. If you decide to retreat from a few enemies, the other person with you may follow. If you decide to gang a straggler, a few people may decide to assist you. All this communication is done by actions and movement, and they would often make a different decision if not for you.

Your individual actions dont matter.

I definitely disagree with that. My decision to burst typically gets people low enough on its own that my team help finish them, or the reverse of that happens. A kill we wouldn't likely have got if I hadn't chosen to burst that specific player. Another example is using my gap closer to stun someone that is low and retreating. This typically stuns them long enough that my team can finish them.

As I've mentioned before, my singular decision to storm ahead with Hallowed Ground can pressure whole teams to retreat and my team to follow me, while in other cases I can lure an entire alliance team away from something important ie. crystal or node, by using myself as bait. During that time, my team catches nodes or kills crystals.

Everything is laggy and unreadable.

Not laggy for me. Unreadable, yes, given how many players are using different attacks.

The only thing that matter is how many more people your team have concentrated in the same place. Going anywhere else than where everyone else is results in death, so initiative is punished.

This part isn't true. I regularly go and claim nodes, often alone or with 1 or 2 others. It depends if there are others doing that or not. If lots of people are claiming nodes away from the main battle, then I join the main battle instead. Going elsewhere is also done for claiming small ices before the other teams do. You just need to have an exit plan and see enemies coming in advance.

I will say that Rival Wings always felt like my individual decisions mattered more though.

[VeyaAkemi]

Your individual actions dont matter.

Oh this is precisely why I like Frontlines... well, "like" is a strong word, I deeply despise PvP in all its forms, however, PvP in FFXIV pays out with some flashy fun things, glams, mounts, emotes, so on, by just participating enough, so Frontlines gives me an easy method for my lack of skill and utter disinterest in improving to not be as negatively impactful, I just need to be a body and push buttons sometimes, and I am already at like marginally above average most of the time.

I actually find myself performing a lot better in smaller modes like CC, but I just don't care about it, it is a chore either way.

[tsuchii]

Don't take Frontline seriously. That's the only way to endure it.
It was never fair and will never be. Just do once per day and you'll eventually get all the achievements.

[Asari5]

if you have a reluctant group one player charging in might very well do the difference in making other players charge in as well
or you die alone and abandoned if they are too scared of pvp xD

[Elephantality]

Usually I could just enjoy occassional bloodbath in Frontline. Even during Endwalker time (or before role action comes into picture) there would be only one thing that had to be constantly watched out: Dark Knight's Salted Earth.

There are so many classes, that I think it's unrealistic to only have to watch out for one thing. That, makes things boring. Battle high I am neutral on, not entirely sure what the reasoning to have it is. It just means, that you will want to win your first team fight, or second one if you don't do as well the first time. Which, reminds me of League of Legends.

[Sunhwapark]

PvE is already calculated, movement is like dance steps. You saying that PvP too?

Well, if you keep dying in sub 5 seconds in the same choke points over and over, then it means YOU are the calculated movement, the enemy is just exploiting your AI.

* I don't specifically mean you op, but this just applies to your team in general.

[CNitsah]

On the other side of the spectrum, there is me that think the average lvl in fl has slightly gone up. It's been a while since I had a team of meatbags that don't understand a thing.