What is wrong about making machinist good?

[Carighan]

Yeah I agree. rDPS has to be equivalent between selfish and support jobs. That's the whole point, that support jobs get their rDPS from other players while selfish jobs do it themselves.

[Raikai]

Yeah I agree. rDPS has to be equivalent between selfish and support jobs. That's the whole point, that support jobs get their rDPS from other players while selfish jobs do it themselves.

When talking about the Aiming group, where their outsourced rdps contribution is much more constant than of those with just 2min meta buffs (Ninja, Monk, Summoner, etc...), it puts MCH in a weird spot because of how well this supporting aspect scales: Unless you're playing with really bad dpsers or in Light Party duties, MCH won't ever find a favorable place. (and the irony of it all is how botched MCH's aoe kit is, to even be a greater boon in Light Parties... sigh.)

And if they overbuff MCH to compensate for this, or make it more desirable, suddenly DNC and BRD will get heavily overshadowed.

To me it's just a symptom of being part of this Aiming group, and the best way to solve is to give a rotational damage buff to MCH in the likeness of Standard Finish (buffs one person) or the songs (buffs whole party for less). However to avoid overlapping those, it could be a damage debuff on the target instead. They would probably also include a 120s buff to the job, but that's beyond the point.

[Valence]

However to avoid overlapping those, it could be a damage debuff on the target instead.

What a coincidence, that's what hypercharge used to do!

Anyway, agreed on the analysis. MCH doesn't follow the profile of heavy buffers BRD and DNC offer, and doesn't fit within the mold which generates this awkward situation where it overperforms them in non optimized settings, and dramatically underperforms in good groups. It has zero business being in rphys precisely because they removed all of its party DPS support tools.

[aiqa]

You want to reproduce for rphys the absolute horror the caster role currently has? Please no...

No I don't want that. I said explicitly tiered dps jobs is a bad idea.

and dramatically underperforms in good groups

But it doesn't. It now performs best of all rphys, even in good groups. That is why the timing of this thread is so weird.

Complaining about rphys as a whole is understandable. Requesting raid buffs for MCH to make it easier to balance in the rphys role is fine. But at this moment in time, complaining that specifically MCH underperforms compared to the other rphys is just weird.

[Carighan]

When talking about the Aiming group, where their outsourced rdps contribution is much more constant than of those with just 2min meta buffs (Ninja, Monk, Summoner, etc...), it puts MCH in a weird spot because of how well this supporting aspect scales: Unless you're playing with really bad dpsers or in Light Party duties, MCH won't ever find a favorable place. (and the irony of it all is how botched MCH's aoe kit is, to even be a greater boon in Light Parties... sigh.)

This is not an uncommon conundrum for MMORPG classes, and hence not an unsolved problem. It just means that the more selfish jobs (a misnomer for MCH anyways since it brings an extra damage reduction instead of an extra damage boost) put more pressure on the individual to perform well, versus the support-y jobs that put more pressure on the others in the party to perform well. This is hardly noteworthy.

Can we just get a ogcd reset on autocrossbow like heat blast? Its been over 6 years... ill just take that at this point. That and aoe battery spender/generator gcd would be cool.

This is extra weird because now that both oGCDs are AoEs, there's high pressure to rather use single-target attacks that cycle oGCD CDs. Nevermind how utterly inane it is to have two exactly identical moves instead of a single one with half the CD and double the max charges!