RE: Sage Design

[Xenoviastar]

Quality over quantity, I'd say.

• Sure they have Toxikon II, but they are treated very similarly as Ruin II/Lily management and thus isn't part of a SGE's routine.
• Sure they have E.Dyskrasia which no other healers had its equivalent in their present iteration, but realistically speaking, when do you even use this outside dungeons that has bajillion targets to DoT - which also amounts even less? While in theory you can E.Dyskrasia first pack then spams Dyskrasia, how many times do you think we'll miss them due to location desync? In the end, running together with tanks as you E.Dosis III targets one by one is still more reliable; the same routine you do with their siblings as well.
• Sure they have Pneuma, but not only it's not a dps gain (just to correct you there mind you) it's also treated as "Cure III but DPS neutral" unless you're cleaving multiple targets, which is also a rarity in 8-mans...
• Phlegma is the oddball (pun intended), but in practice they're still too same'y as combination of Assize and Afflatus Misery given how suspiciously close they are in potency to the latter and its cooldown being adjusted at the same time as when Assize got knocked down to 40s.
• I personally could even go one step further by considering Psyche to Aetherflow's equivalent as "another button I press every 60s, no buts", except Psyche requires no thought while Aetherflow requires conscious decision from my end to spend them for EDs when not needed. But this is just me-thing.

At the end of the day you are still spending majority of your time 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 on all four healers. It's ridiculous and beyond lazy. They can do better, they had been better. They SHOULD be better.

P.S. SCH still holds the top spot on having the most number of oGCDs amongst all healers, just to correct you a bit there. I'm not even counting how Summon Seraph changes into Consolation here.

You've seem to misquote me everywhere...

When I say dps positive, it means you don't lose dps which can be equal to your normal attack. So dosis is the same dps as pneuma. Not an increase.
While toxikon is also a dps positive being the same damage as dosis. But ruin 2 for scholar is a dps lose.

Also I said sage has more dps OGCDs not overall OGCDs. Scholar only has energy drain and Baneful Impaction as OGCD dps options.

Yes I know scholar is the best damage but thats all coming from ruin and energy drain. You think im enjoying this? No.
Yes they should do better than 1211111.

[Supersnow845]

You've seem to misquote me everywhere...

When I say dps positive, it means you don't lose dps which can be equal to your normal attack. So dosis is the same dps as pneuma. Not an increase.
While toxikon is also a dps positive being the same damage as dosis. But ruin 2 for scholar is a dps lose.

Also I said sage has more dps OGCDs not overall OGCDs. Scholar only has energy drain and Baneful Impaction as OGCD dps options.

Yes I know scholar is the best damage but thats all coming from ruin and energy drain. You think im enjoying this? No.
Yes they should do better than 1211111.

That’s not him misquoting you. That’s you using the words incorrectly

Pnuema is DPS neutral. DPS positive would be something like misery under raid buffs

[Xenoviastar]

it's a neutral in damage and positive by providing healing. just like toxikon provides movement.
its a matter of prespective I suppose. My bad that i didnt use the word that the Forum gods perfer.

[ty_taurus]

it's a neutral in damage and positive by providing healing. just like toxikon provides movement.
its a matter of prespective I suppose. My bad that i didnt use the word that the Forum gods perfer.

We don't need to have an attitude about it.

Healing does not generate damage. That's not to say that it's useless because that's obviously false, but the point of saying whether something DPS negative, neutral, or positive is to signify where it stands in relation to your neutral game, and that applies to every job. Why cast Phlegma when you could cast Dosis instead? Because Phlegma is DPS positive: It deals more damage than Glare. Why minimize uses of Prognosis in favor of Dosis? Because Prognosis is DPS negative: It costs you a cast of Dosis and should be reserved to situations where other resources are unavailable, or you don't have time to heal through multiple weaves and need to layer an OGCD with Prognosis to heal faster. Why not cast Pneuma on cooldown rather than wait for a situation that best utilizes the healing? Because Pneuma is DPS neutral: you neither gain damage nor lose damage when casting it, thus there is no need to use it as often as possible.

I get that you're saying Pneuma offers more than Dosis because it also heals, but the point I'm trying to make is that extra healing doesn't matter when calculating damage, which is primary the purpose of the negative/neutral/positive language. That's why we don't typically count Pneuma as a true DPS action, because we choose to cast it for when the healing is needed, not the damage. If the damage were higher than Dosis, that would make it a true DPS action, because then you're incentivized to use it on cooldown, but that would also conflict with the healing effect since you won't always need it every 2 minutes on the dot. But that's also why I'd suggest changing how it works in some way to allow Pneuma to serve both the functions of damage and the function of healing when appropriate. For example, make Pneuma a raw damage burst on a cooldown, but make Eukrasian Pneuma a DPS neutral heal with no cooldown but a steeper MP cost. That not only retains the current function, but gives you more agency over how often you want to utilize the burst healing effect. You can be greedy with it, or you can be frugal with it. Letting you choose is something the game could stand to do a lot more of.

[ty_taurus]

You've seem to misquote me everywhere...

When I say dps positive, it means you don't lose dps which can be equal to your normal attack. So dosis is the same dps as pneuma. Not an increase.
While toxikon is also a dps positive being the same damage as dosis. But ruin 2 for scholar is a dps lose.

Also I said sage has more dps OGCDs not overall OGCDs. Scholar only has energy drain and Baneful Impaction as OGCD dps options.

Yes I know scholar is the best damage but thats all coming from ruin and energy drain. You think im enjoying this? No.
Yes they should do better than 1211111.

A misunderstanding of words then. To expand on snow's response and why we've used the terminology that way: we generally look at "DPS positive" to mean a gain over Dosis (or whatever other flavor of DPS slop each other healer has). Since Dosis can be cast in potentially every GCD from start to finish, we compare actions to how much damage is gained or lost compared to just casting Dosis. In that sense, we can look at Dosis as a 0, healing spells as a -1 and other attacks like E. Dosis or Phlegma as +1. Since Pneuma is the same potency, it also is 0, thus "DPS neutral" as snow explained.

I take your meaning is that anything that isn't a -1 is "positive" because you're still gaining the same amount of damage. Regardless, the reason why I do not consider Pneuma to be a part of Sage's DPS arsenal is because it being neutral means there is no reason to consider the damage of Pneuma (outside of AOE which isn't a particularly important part of FFXIV's design anyway). That means for what it's worth, Pneuma is effectively just "Cure III" only without the opportunity cost of damage. I wouldn't necessarily call Toxikon "DPS neutral" for the record except for your initial three casts, because any cast beyond the third requires you first lose damage by casting a barrier, and while there will be times where casting a barrier is necessary, those are extremely rare in most content because of how Sage's healing is loaded almost entirely onto its OGCD.

I think Toxikon would be a lot better if we gained an Addersting from something like casting E. Dosis instead.