Red Mage idea

[Virin]

Ok so I am bored at work and had an idea. Here is the TL,DR version of it.

Red Mage - GLD/THM
Tank class that uses enfeebling magic, en-spells (enthunder,fire, etc) for enmity generation, and THM spells for extra dps.
Lower def than PLD but higher dps to counter that

Make warrior a true DD (they are a 2h class after all)

Now I am biased because I love RDM and tank classes but I think it would be a cool idea


/discuss

[Felis]

Make Fencer the main class and GLD/THM the sub classes with THM as main sub class.
The weapon should be more the rapier style instead of a sword, I think.
Because the red mages are similar to the "3 musketeer" from the appearance to me ^^

[Virin]

Make Fencer the main class and GLD/THM the sub classes with THM as main sub class

That could work. That solves my problem of what 3 classes would make up the ability list

[Onisake]

Ok so I am bored at work and had an idea. Here is the TL,DR version of it.

Red Mage - GLD/THM
Tank class that uses enfeebling magic, en-spells (enthunder,fire, etc) for enmity generation, and THM spells for extra dps.
Lower def than PLD but higher dps to counter that

Make warrior a true DD (they are a 2h class after all)

Now I am biased because I love RDM and tank classes but I think it would be a cool idea


/discuss

I wouldnt' mind RDM being a tank. but what does it really gain from THM?

Thunder (but no combo)
fire (but no combo)
Necrogenesis (small HP gain back from Thunder or fire)
Dark Seal (less resist on the 2 spells you can cast)
Resonance (pulling?)
Sanguine Rite (arguably the only useful subskill)

the opportunity cost of casting damage spells is huge. you're likely to do more damage (and generate more hate) with your sword combos than wasting time casting fire or thunder. (except for AoE hate from fire i guess)

if you were to throw in CNJ it becomes too close to PLD. pretty much swapping THM for MRD. and then you have to worry about sacred prism => enspell being abused.

as far as lore, it would make most sense to have GLA with THM/CNJ subs to be rdm. but you have so many skills that aren't useful i have to question what good this job could do aside from it's 5 job abilities. CNJ is arguably a far better sub than THM. but to fit the traditional RDM you'd need all 3. white magic, black magic, and melee.

Make Fencer the main class and GLD/THM the sub classes with THM as main sub class.
The weapon should be more the rapier style instead of a sword, I think.
Because the red mages are similar to the "3 musketeer" from the appearance to me ^^

similar to above GLA doesn't give a lot of useful sub traits. they are either exclusive to GLA or require you to first block with a shield. also i question why even add a seperate single handed sword class when GLA already fulfills that role. you're better off reworking the shield abilities to have a dual purpose (with and without shield) and just give GLA access to rapier style weapons.


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GLA as it is can only spawn a support or tank class due to many of it's abilities dependence on shield and blocking with said shield. so a major revamp to these abilities is needed before we can really think of branching out.

I also feel that a fencer class overlaps too much with GLA. as GLA can be fixed to serve the same purpose. and it's less work for the devs. I'd rather see a katana class introduced to spawn nin and sam. rather than a fencer. but if we keep with the one class one job pattern obviously fencer will be needed. But i don't think it is:

I feel rapiers are more 'thrust' and 'pierce' weapons. using LNC as a base is far more viable to bring RDM a stronger DD stance. a single handed option for LNC is not out of the question considering that GSWD is viable for GLA.

not to mention you could make RDM enfeeble based due to PIE being a main stat of LNC. sub THM/CNJ for additional spell utility and access to white/black magic.

THM would would help increase potency/range for when RDM wants to be more backline (resonance, dark seal, etc.) sanguine right helps RDM when wanting to melee. CNJ gives access to cure, SS, and Sacred Prism rounding out the class. lancer's thrust based WSs also make more sense for rapiers. Life/Power surge also give some extra utility to the class given certain situations.

job Abilities could include Scourge, Dia, bio, etc. to give it more of an enfeebling feel.

30: Bio DoT, lowers attack of target
35: Dia DoT Lowers defense of target
40: En-XXXXX changes physical attacks to XXXXX element
45: XXXXX-spike Upon taking physical damage, target takes XXXX elemental damage OR an ability that makes next attack/enfeeble spell AoE
50: fast cast - drastically reduces cast time of spells.

woudl have access to 4 elemental spells: fire, thunder, aero, stone. could potentially AoE any of those and apply the enfeebles from Aero and Stone.

3 DoT moves: Aero, Bio, Dia to supplement magic damage

Access to Lancers WSs and combos for melee damage.

access to Cure, Protect, SS and Sacred Prism as well as an en spell and a spike spell to round out defensive utility.

RDM then has a choice on focusing on enfeeble potency, damage potency, or enhancing potency.

[kazaran]

THey need something started with THM, it has the lowest unock combo of base jobs.

You can't have anything with too high of defense and damage, that is embalnaced. RDM would have moderate defense (equal to a leather armor) and reduced spell damage with soem over time added. THey can in no way be a primary tank, primary DD, primary healer. but a blance.

BLM's are suffering with lack of balanced elemental spells and damage which luckily is being addressed. Wars can't be primary DD either but a slightly under pld in defense with ability to do over time damage and maintain hate.

[Virin]

THey need something started with THM, it has the lowest unock combo of base jobs.

You can't have anything with too high of defense and damage, that is embalnaced. RDM would have moderate defense (equal to a leather armor) and reduced spell damage with soem over time added. THey can in no way be a primary tank, primary DD, primary healer. but a blance.


BLM's are suffering with lack of balanced elemental spells and damage which luckily is being addressed. Wars can't be primary DD either but a slightly under pld in defense with ability to do over time damage and maintain hate.

Yeah I was thinking leather-ish level of def for it. And though I don't want to spin this into a pld vs war thread (or maybe a grass thread) why can't war be a dd? Just an aoe focused dd with survivability that can withstand pulling hate from groups for a short time while the true tank classes regain hate.

As for BLM don't ask me. Dps Mage classes in every game have similar flaws an I never can come up with a viable fix

[Gokulo]

RDM would need access to CNJ too, as it always used both black and white magic.

[Virin]

RDM would need access to CNJ too, as it always used both black and white magic.

Typically yes you are right. Traditional red Mage would be cnj too but in the current job system I don't think it can work. Plus if you do that then instead of a tank substitute it is a brd substitute as off heal/enfeeble instead. Without the access to cnj it would still make it important to have whm and brd in parties so it doesn't turn into A. Brd vs rdm whine fest or B. ffxi ninja tank where they can survive better and make pld worthless.

[redmage]

Definitely hoping for Fencer as the Class that unlocks Red Mage =)

[SwordCoheir]

Problem with stemming the job off of GLA is it would bring a 3rd tankish job in the mix. Not that I don't blame you for wanting to turn GLA into a more DPSesque format, but GLA's abilities are too restrictive towards tanking. Gear Wise just about every armor in the game can be used by their class/job counterparts and that in itself would cause a huge rift with RDM if they specifically tailored them to lighter based armor.

If were to truly get a workable hybrid job we need to have a class that's built around it, but with the limitations of actions and abilities they need to combine the hybrid elements to work together mixing the melee and magic aspects that way they all have to be used to get the optimal effect. I suppose they could try keeping the aspects separate, however with the limited number of abilities per job it might underpower one aspect and cause one side to be preferred over or destroy the job's overall usefulness in anything worthwhile in the game like with FFXI which by far was the worst and most poorly implemented rendition of RDM known.

If you'd like an idea what I'm talking about here's a thread I created some time ago that built RDM from the ground up based on the similarities and patterns of other jobs and classes.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...gn-Red-Mage%21