Deep Dungeon random floor effects are a fun idea, but they could be more!

[ArcaneToast]

Hey all, just a fluff from the brain type of post.

What do you think of the random floor effects in deep dungeons? By these I mean effects like gloom, no sprint, hp down etc.

What if there was a different type of content similar to deep dungeon, but a new package that reuses existing content in the game. What if instead of randomised floors we had a new type of content with a similar premise:

You get to do randomised duties in the game (dungeons, trials, raids) WITH a plethora of random effects that can make climbing levels increasingly harder. This would reuse almost all normal mode content in the game, but they could find ways to buff enemies or elements of them as you climb to higher "floors". Unlike deep dungeons there's no reason why this couldn't keep going infinitely until you inevitably wipe and fail (this is not like quantum, there wouldn't be new mechanics).

It's just a fun idea, and even without rewards or progression in mind I'd love more of a reason to revisit older content other than for duty roulettes which are the same each time and to make them fun. This is also an opportunity to make the randomised floors upscaled, and allow your use of your full level 100 kit. At the same time, there's no reasons something like this couldn't function like palace of the dead and allow low level players to join in too, something that has not been done in a long time and makes new content hard to reach for new players.
Like palace of the dead, there could be multiple effects on at the same time.

Some additional effect ideas that can exist with the existing deep dungeon effects:

• Force undersized party
• No limit break gauge
• Roles swap limit break
• Continuous bleed on the party
• No resurrection
• Random intervals of pyretic
• Party/ mobs minimised/maximised (shrink/grow)
• haste/slow
• Wandering mobs (mob taken from another duty spawned into the current duty)
• Mobs swapped, similar to the above, but a dungeon boss or mob type for example could be entirely changed to something else from anywhere in the game, similar to the dd pommander.
• Bonus points if the above can happen to bosses (imagine fighting living liquid in sastasha)

Thoughts

[Valence]

My actual problem with deep dungeons is that they lack half of what make rogue lite systems actual rogue lites: there is no sense of progression once you're max level inside deep dungeons. No loot, no perks to alter or buff your party/job, nothing. This floor system could have been much more with persistent perks that you loot or have to pick from every time you come across one.

There is overall a great lack of things to fiddle with beyond pomanders.

[XtremePrime]

Honestly yes to both of the above posts.
I want floor effects to be crazier or wackier, really throw in a curveball for the party or make it silly OP!

Same for upgrades. Pomanders are okay, but they're not interesting... Let me deal more types of damage, or let me use special attacks. Remove cooldowns from some abilities, or make other abilities do additional effects!
Deep Dungeons are an AMAZING place for such stuff as it is self contained and can provide the devs with a grounds for testing how changing/tuning certain abilities can be applied in the base game too!

[Commander_Justitia]

They do have wandering mobs, they just spawn rarely and not on all floors. If you kill them they say something funny or lore related in the text bubble.

But yeah, they never changed the formula much since the first deep dungeon, the base design remained the same.

I would have liked to see something like "eureka/bozja x deep dungeon" - put 100+ people on the map, all spawning in some random corner of the map, maybe it has 2-3 layers each floor (max 5-10 randomly generated). PvP could have been enabled on floor 2+ (if there is a unique skill set to these floors different from PvE set, or only PvP skill set with something like rezzes for healer added - whatever), or you team up with other groups against bigger bosses and form bigger parties. If you die your corpse becomes loot and you restart from 0.
Just imagining outside of the floors, PvE guilds are forming together to build alliances against PvP orientated guilds who are camping certain locations, like what else are even guilds for atm?
Mobs like in a few dungeons where you need to pull undead mobs into the sunlight so they start burning and losing mitigation buffs. Or pull mud mobs into the water so they lose their protective shell - same concept. Or kill mobs by the aoe of another bigger mob. Or using traps like in temple of quarn to spike mobs up and cut their HP in half each hit. Or place the mob under the falling rock or erupting geysirs so it takes extra damage. That are all gameplay mechanics I want to see in a RPG, I don't need another dance to evade aoe and spread/stack and hit the boss for 5min to kill it.

There are so many more ways to make it more interesting and appealing than - have a pomander, now kill this mob like you killed all other 10000 mobs before in the same exact way.

[ovIm]

My actual problem with deep dungeons is that they lack half of what make rogue lite systems actual rogue lites: there is no sense of progression once you're max level inside deep dungeons. No loot, no perks to alter or buff your party/job, nothing. This floor system could have been much more with persistent perks that you loot or have to pick from every time you come across one.

There is overall a great lack of things to fiddle with beyond pomanders.

absolutely agree. I would love if you could be able to get a couple of Lost-Actions-Adjacent skills to chose from and then pick 2 for your run, transforming your build and the way you approach the floors ahead.
Unfortunately, the only thing CS3 is able to do semi-successfully is regurgitate previous content on the current expansion max level.

[PyurBlue]

The randomization of maps is what sticks out to me the most in Deep Dungeons, it adds a fair amount of replayability. The status effects I haven't found as engaging and I wouldn't miss them if they went away. The ones I have most problem with are the ones that change your character plays, especially losing abilities. It does add to the challenge but it also feels really limiting in terms of gameplay in a game where performing your rotation is a significant part of the challenge. I don't mind gloom, damage penalty, or disabled autoheal.

From the ideas presented the bleed and mob swaps sound likes good additions to dungeon style content.

[Valence]

absolutely agree. I would love if you could be able to get a couple of Lost-Actions-Adjacent skills to chose from and then pick 2 for your run, transforming your build and the way you approach the floors ahead.
Unfortunately, the only thing CS3 is able to do semi-successfully is regurgitate previous content on the current expansion max level.

I had in mind something based on rng, and not something you start up with, else you just go back to the base problem where nothing happens once you're leveled up inside, you stop progressing, and just get more pomanders as you go to use on the latest, hardest floors. Pomanders can stay though for sure, they're not bad, they just fall into the consummables of the content, which is good enough as it is.

But as every rogue like I've seen, as you go, you gain some random loot, some random perks and features and it's always different. You sometimes have to choose between multiple options that are offered to you and this also generate agency and choice. And all of those perks continue to strengthen your "build" and open for cool or exotic synergies that you build up as you go and your character/party gets stronger. Lost actions and whatnot could fill that role for sure, but I'd really like having that once you're inside and getting more and more until the last floor.

Of course there is another thing a lot of rogue lites also do is to make you unlock more and more perks by playing that you then load up at the start of the next run too, that's true. Why not?

[Brandr]

All dungeons should be roguelike

[ovIm]

snip

Pretty much what I was thinking/hoping for as well, don't get me wrong. I would also add that every mob you kill rewards you with a little bit of currency, which you can spend at a merchant that spawns randomly, with random stock that you can use for your run (temp buffs, new skills, etc).
There are many ways of making DD's even more interesting imho, that's for sure. But that would mean that the game needs to stop being so on rails.

[ArcaneToast]

My actual problem with deep dungeons is that they lack half of what make rogue lite systems actual rogue lites: there is no sense of progression once you're max level inside deep dungeons. No loot, no perks to alter or buff your party/job, nothing. This floor system could have been much more with persistent perks that you loot or have to pick from every time you come across one.

There is overall a great lack of things to fiddle with beyond pomanders.

This so much to be honest, they have the idea right there in front of them, and it could be so much more.