Modders did it to themselves

[SyferU]

People are unhappy with Dawntrail, with it or without it.

And to be honest, it could even be the best move for SE to strike now that the mood of the FFXIV players is at its worst since... probably a very long time and counting on a 8.0 to try to recapture the love of the players.

Because even if 7.2 and 7.3 were more warmly welcomed, mostly the MSQ, only 8.0 can truely make a shift. If 8.0 is a hit, it would be worse to taint it with drama.

I'm just interested to see what is going to happen in the future, if SE will continuously try to chase down new mare like mods or if people just learn from this and be a bit more discreet with the next one. Probably not lmao.

[Aidorouge]

And to be honest, it could even be the best move for SE to strike now that the mood of the FFXIV players is at its worst since... probably a very long time and counting on a 8.0 to try to recapture the love of the players.

Recapture the love of what players though if too many of have left by then and have recommended against others to play it? Something like this isn't going to stop the hemorrhaging Dawntrail started, it's only going to make it worse, and it's certainly not going to give Square-Enix a mulligan if they botch 8.0.
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Kind of... But what the ToS actually states, and how they enforce that ToS are different, which is a problem really, because it's only otherwise ever stated in the "Disappointed dad" conversation, and of course if we are assuming this was done because of ToS and not some larger security concern, then at what point them deem "Don't talk about it" is very arbitrary, seeing as people have been openly discussing it for years.

Not that I disagree with you, but when there is a disparity like the one presented here, then the rules do actually become very meaningless, since they are undermining their own rules, and doing it in such a way that actual enforcement is kind of arbitrary, again, allowing Mare to fester openly for years before electing to take an action.

To say nothing of the OTHER openly well-known mods that Square-Enix somehow still isn't going after, once more raising the issue of inconsistency.

If I had to make a top 5 list of "open secret" mods, Mare would be THIRD.
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As for comparing it to Parsing, they may not be linked in an adventurer plate, but they are certainly doing it via Lodestone, and then people aren't exactly being subtle with 'Allagan Melon' either.

I'd say the parsing thing was way worse because I don't recall having to copy & paste a phrase into my profile for Mare so my Lodestone WOULDN'T get its data scrapped like I had to do with "fflogs-hidden" and "tomestone-hidden".

That's arguably more intrusive/prompts harassment from others, yet there's some in this topic who think ACT is totes harmless while Mare was Satan-incarnate.
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I think some of you are under the illusion that by banning the degenerates SE is going to finally focus on delivering good traditional MMO content.

LOL

Well, you have to remember that some of these same people also legitimately believe that the game will return to a "golden age" and make more money if all the casuals get cast out too, so the delulu is strong.

[TeresaFortell]

I feel like many people don't really understand this isn't about SE being in the right.
There will be a new mare sooner or later, so taking it down has no other effect than getting more people mad at SE and Dawntrail, it's just a bad decision, doesn't change anything if it's against the TOS or not.

Sure, it's an arms race. However, I think there is an accumulated amount of poor decisions on SE's end that would not bring back those players even if it is brought back by whatever means.

[Carin-Eri]

I feel like many people don't really understand this isn't about SE being in the right.
There will be a new mare sooner or later, so taking it down has no other effect than getting more people mad at SE and Dawntrail, it's just a bad decision, doesn't change anything if it's against the TOS or not.

Why was it a bad decision? What prompted the Cease and Desist Order? What would've happened if SE had not acted upon whatever it was that prompted them to take this action?

I don't know the answers either - FACT is we, the players, don't really know what prompted this action; player response to what has occurred is being fuelled by emotion, not facts. But I would suggest there is a high probability that SE was attempting to avoid litigation that would result from doing nothing. And unhappy players complaining, leaving, and/or posting review-bombs was probably a softer hit to take than legal expenses.

[Oizen]

Why was it a bad decision? What prompted the Cease and Desist Order? What would've happened if SE had not acted upon whatever it was that prompted them to take this action?

I don't know the answers either - FACT is we, the players, don't really know what prompted this action; player response to what has occurred is being fuelled by emotion, not facts. But I would suggest there is a high probability that SE was attempting to avoid litigation that would result from doing nothing. And unhappy players complaining, leaving, and/or posting review-bombs was probably a softer hit to take than legal expenses.

Well its objectively a bad decision because lets face it, XIV is not in the best of places right now.

Dawntrail was not received well, the player base has been bleeding players, new players aren't coming in at the rates they used to, likely googling dawntrail reviews and staying away.
We just had a financial report from SE saying their MMO devision's gross sales is down 2.9 billion yen, and while its true every expac dips in the middle like this, its the worst its ever really been seeing numbers dropping to ~4.0 levels.

Pissing off the Modbeasts and getting them to quit the game now is a questionable move because the player base is already down. Losing even more, even if we were to guess it be about 10% (though I'd estimate it to be closer to 20-30%) isn't exactly a good idea right now, especially when Yoshida gave us the now infamous line about not being able to afford making normal versions of Forked Tower.

Less players = Less Subs = Less Money. Thats why it was a bad decision. Square Enix was 100% within their rights to do this, but the timing is pretty bad, and it has the potential the hurt the game in the long run. Especially if we start to see more C&Ds targeted at third party tools/plugins.

[Carin-Eri]

Well its objectively a bad decision because lets face it, XIV is not in the best of places right now.

Dawntrail was not received well, the player base has been bleeding players, new players aren't coming in at the rates they used to, likely googling dawntrail reviews and staying away.
We just had a financial report from SE saying their MMO devision's gross sales is down 2.9 billion yen, and while its true every expac dips in the middle like this, its the worst its ever really been seeing numbers dropping to ~4.0 levels.

Pissing off the Modbeasts and getting them to quit the game now is a questionable move because the player base is already down. Losing even more, even if we were to guess it be about 10% (though I'd estimate it to be closer to 20-30%) isn't exactly a good idea right now, especially when Yoshida gave us the now infamous line about not being able to afford making normal versions of Forked Tower.

Less players = Less Subs = Less Money. Thats why it was a bad decision. Square Enix was 100% within their rights to do this, but the timing is pretty bad, and it has the potential the hurt the game in the long run. Especially if we start to see more C&Ds targeted at third party tools/plugins.

Again, we're not privy to the full facts. Which isn't to say your wrong... but, keeping in mind that some unknown factor prompted the CaD order, the timing of this is probably something that SE had no sway over.

And again, it could well be the case that the cost of losing a relatively small percentage of players isn't as impactful to the bottom line as the legal costs (from inaction) could have been.

[Akira]

theres already a mare clone out that i will not speak the name of.

[Its_Kazzy_D]

theres already a mare clone out that i will not speak the name of.

You may not speak the name of it, but the same people who led it Mare getting banned sure will!

[Moggwa]

What does this have to do with the game, FF14? I thought discussing 3rd party tools resulted in permanent bans?


Reminder: The game is still bad, but it's not too late to unsub. Join me and the hundreds of thousands of others who are leaving during the Dawntrail expansion. It's not too late to do the right thing

Neat dude, see ya next patch

[MsMisato]

I have played FFXIV since 2.0 and I've watched the entire situation regarding restricted tools develop and evolve over time. It used to be understood amongst anyone who played that you are best off not directly naming or discussing third party tools in-game but that has been lost in the past 5 years or so.

Yoshi P has hinted a million times on live letters when the topic is discussed, although he must explicitly say that any third party tools are forbidden, he also doesn't want to have to crack down on people who use them, so he asks to please just be responsible.

In the past two expansions, I have seen tool usage become increasingly bold. They must think the devs are four years old, they know your search info isn't talking about the moon zone. They know that {Allagan Melon} in your TOP PF isn't talking about the minion. You can't even look at Twitter without being subjected to dolled up IMVU modbeasts under both official and gpose related tags, makeup that would put a Kpop star to shame and grotesque tumors growing out of their funny bits which are covered in tattoos. Everyone has seen them, and obviously the devs can see them too. I mean really, how are we praising them for integrating features from said tools into the base game but pretending like they're easy to fool at the same time?

I can only hope that SE pursues other third party tools because there are much worse things than cosmetic mods on 'You-Know-What' and the average raider cannot tell their ass from their elbow without said tools. You pushed the envelope and kept pushing until it went too far and now you're upset there's consequences, boo hoo.

It went beyond discussing that's the issue. it went to streaming to even to the point of players in world firsts using third party tools while streaming and getting caught by SE. Both sides are equally responsible. SE for only taking a finger waggling to the teams using in world first clears, of course its gives the illusion of free reign without consequence. Its the players fault for continuously talking about it.