Thread: Dark Knight - rework- changes 8.0 suggestion

Originally Posted by Derio

DRK is fine so long as the healer isnt really bad or messes up your invuln. If you got a early level version of TBN it would be perfect. I think healers honestly need better oGCD healing options earlier. Most of the time a DRK dies is because either A- lack of proper mitigation or B- Healer did not heal the tank. Some cases you can have both

This is my question not a gotcha.

Is drk power full or is healers overpowered? If drk's mit allow them to pull without a healer then it's drk. If the healer can keep a tank alive without mit, it's the healer. Now if you need both and drk still dies even if it's not all the time but still happens, I'd say it needs a bit of help. But let's be honest most other tanks are very overturned. Just some food for thought

Originally Posted by Vatom

This is my question not a gotcha.

Is drk power full or is healers overpowered? If drk's mit allow them to pull without a healer then it's drk. If the healer can keep a tank alive without mit, it's the healer. Now if you need both and drk still dies even if it's not all the time but still happens, I'd say it needs a bit of help. But let's be honest most other tanks are very overturned. Just some food for thought

Both are overpowered.

You dont need a tank and healer you just need one, you can clear any dungeon without a Tank, you can clear any dungeon without a Healer.

Originally Posted by Rithy255

Both are overpowered.

You dont need a tank and healer you just need one, you can clear any dungeon without a Tank, you can clear any dungeon without a Healer.

I would say that's a big problem and cb3 needs too look at the fundamentals before anything

Originally Posted by Vatom

I would say that's a big problem and cb3 needs too look at the fundamentals before anything

It's a fundamental issue that is bigger than the jobs and their abilities. In fact, comparing other MMORPGs, both the tank and the healer-kits aren't even strong in FFXIV. Healer kits are oGCD/CD overburdened while being underpowered and underdeveloped on the GCD-heal side (compare WoW having selections of heals like efficient-but-slow, big-but-costly, fast-but-costly, that stuff). Tanks have maybe a bit needlessly many CDs instead of fewer stronger ones on shorter CDs, but that's mostly a wash.

The underlying issue is an utter unwillingness to deal any real amount of damage to either tanks or the group. And that's a problem. It means tanks can survive pulled large groups of mobs, while healers can spend all their time GCD-nuking, healing what damage there is mostly with oGCDs.

The solution would be a combination of significantly raising HP pools (but not defenses), importantly not adjusting healing/regeneration/shields (so you take long to die even against high incoming damage, but you cannot trivially be re-healed either, it takes real time and mana to do that), then:

* Increase all melee damage output massively (remember even non-tanks have high health pools now!).
* Make many melee attacks cleaving, some even 360° (extra damage on melee DPS that has to be healed).
* Make autoattacks able to crit, and make crit-resistance a type of damage reduction (allows further tank differentiation, one tank could be mostly or passively crit-immune in return for weaker CDs or less passive damage reduction).
* Bigger individual trash mobs and bosses constantly have some way of dealing low~medium damage to non-tank party members. Say on every autoattack they shoot two bolts at random people for 25%-30% of their HP pool, or they cause unchoreographed line and circle AoEs to erupt in the area hitting for 15%-20% on everyone hit, or they just have a ticking AoE DoT that cannot be disabled that still deals non-trivial damage every few seconds.

This together with changing healer and tank kits would allow a setup where healers spend most of their GCDs on healing, not damage, while also being able (heals cost a lot!) deplete their mana pools, so tank damage resistance against "normal" damage matters a lot suddenly. Meanwhile tanks cannot hold their defensive kit just for the 1-2 special abilities, they need to constantly reduce how much healing they require (or re-heal themselves, crucial all of a sudden!), and DPS need to actually utilitze their defensive and self-healing abilities (which probably need some buff then, too).

The thing is... that's too much. That would basically mean scrapping the combat system entirely, including all enemy actions, and re-doing it from the start. And that for 100 levels of existing content. No way are they going to do that.