Summoner - What it needs.

[Anvaire]

That’s the entire problem, beyond vague “they generally summon stuff” SMN is one of the series most diffuse job descriptions. Let’s ignore that 3 4 5 and 9 can’t even agree whether SMN’s learn white or black magic alongside summoning (a VERY important distinction if you are going to import it into 14) old and new FF can’t even agree on how long the summoned thing stays on the field

3 4 5 and 9 they are basically glorified raidwides, 10 11 12 type zero and arguably 16 they are more permanent and the ability to summon is diffused around the party rather than sitting in the hands of a person who’s job is called “summoner” and all have different costs, hell type zero kills the party to summon something.

Do you see a singular coherent job identity here? I certainly don’t. Even if you think that the newer games are “wrong” and that a true summoner is a 3 4 5 9 style “summons are glorified raidwides” they still don’t even agree on what “else” a summoner can learn besides their summons. 3 uses both, rydia uses black 5 arguably uses neither, 9 specs them into pseudo healers and it’s arguable that yuna can also be played as a pseudo healers

What here precludes the idea that a SMN could have their secondary aspectation be virus mage? There seems to be very little rules for the summoner archetype. I’m not even saying old SMN was good but people seem completely set on the idea that old SMN has to be wrong when SMN is barely a coherent archetype throughout the game anyway

I think lore wise, FFXIV summoner had dots because it branched from Arcanist which was a dot class.
I think the problem was everytime they tried to make the dot synergy work, it ended up being cluny and was ultimately amended.

For me i think summoner is a just a class that summons. The debate between dot smn and Summoner SMN (for want of a better term) was lost in EW with the later winning.
Personally i would have liked them to make a new dot focused class without the constant to and fro between "not being a true summoner"

For Summoner - i think it just needs to be a bit more like Demonology warlock. It just summons things, or empowers those summons. Has a targetable pet to manage or at the very least that attacks with the summoner. Whether it can summon 6 or 20 entities doesnt really matter, as long as mechaniclly the job is interesting and flexible. It is good to use past final fantasy summoner design as a starting point, but i dont think that should be presecriptive.

Personlly i think the issue is everyone has a different idea of what it should be so whatever they do, its always going to be divisive. Which is why i think they should take the decision in endwalker as a line in the sand and focus on a summoning summoner over a dot summoner. That doesnt mean it cant have dots, techically it currently does with the garuda puddle. I just dont see dots being the focus again.