Summoner - What it needs.

[HanakoTheGoth]

I really feel you need to calm down because at this point you are making yourself angry over points I never made

My only point so far is that you seem to like how modern SMN better represents old style summoners like rydia but also point out how good 11 is. SMN as a class archetype can be broadly divided into two classes

1) flashy raidwides- 3, 4, 5 and 9
2) stay on the field and do something- 10, 11, 12, old 14 and 16

My only point is that old SMN was CLOSER to the design of 11 where things actually stayed on the field and conferred advantage, new SMN is arguably closer to rydia but that makes it further from 11.

Anything else is you making yourself angry about points I didn’t make

from what i understand we all not wrong no one is wrong here yes would be nice have more buttons on summoner as is they didnt need go so fair when they remade summoner. they bring back some things old summoner has some creative way so both sides of coin can be happy. however they cant keep the summoner with just titan, garuda and ifirit either. they have do something and creating other copy of bahamut or pheonix not giving any thought to summoners everywhere rather like old or new. is destroying this job

[Carighan]

from what i understand we all not wrong no one is wrong here yes would be nice have more buttons on summoner as is they didnt need go so fair when they remade summoner. they bring back some things old summoner has some creative way so both sides of coin can be happy. however they cant keep the summoner with just titan, garuda and ifirit either. they have do something and creating other copy of bahamut or pheonix not giving any thought to summoners everywhere rather like old or new. is destroying this job

Eh, comparing other games Summoner even now has a lot of buttons. It's not the size of your hotbar, it's how you use it.

[HanakoTheGoth]

Eh, comparing other games Summoner even now has a lot of buttons. It's not the size of your hotbar, it's how you use it.

yah I know but still from long time played this game final fantasy 14 players have a button addiction. dont care what that button does as long they get press it. so when old summoner losts 50 button rotation. button addicted players got little b-hurt started there rant. sometimes think just want buttons simply have something to press. it would be complete garbage but they wouldnt care as long they have something press.

1/2/1/2/1/2 never a problem for me. sense those buttons changed other abilities but you see button addicted players are a special breed of individual they don't see it as pressing a different ability all they see is there pushing the same button. see my point. button addiction is really bad

[Carighan]

Plus the bigger problem is that we never a reason to not press the buttons in an extremely static way. Even Dancer and Red Mage have been so neutered by high (or 50%, on Dancer) proc chances that their moment-to-moment gameplay is utterly reliable despite having important procs.

Instead even 5-6 buttons can keep a player entirely engaged if they are non-trivial to utilize, requiring split-second reactions, intentional non-use and non-plannable availability. If anything a well-designed job would need fewer buttons than current Summoner. But of course, it has to be well-designed first. >.>

[HanakoTheGoth]

Plus the bigger problem is that we never a reason to not press the buttons in an extremely static way. Even Dancer and Red Mage have been so neutered by high (or 50%, on Dancer) proc chances that their moment-to-moment gameplay is utterly reliable despite having important procs.

Instead even 5-6 buttons can keep a player entirely engaged if they are non-trivial to utilize, requiring split-second reactions, intentional non-use and non-plannable availability. If anything a well-designed job would need fewer buttons than current Summoner. But of course, it has to be well-designed first. >.>

I think in defense of how they did range dps is cause you are only class in game can move and attack constantly however ranged dps always been hot mess. rather it be mch under preforming bard... well bard and dancers rng being a pain. not mention physical ranged role skills are all terrible to agree more so then any other job but choice few ones

[Shiroe]

it needs one new dot, to keep track of, time the reapplying for max damage, and to increase the overall (very low) damage of the Smn.., just one dot will make it more engaging, increase its damage and be a fast fix..
...
everything else needs a full rework & rebalance..., which is probably very needed.. , but adding a dot should be a fast and easy fix

[Shiroe]

I know, a single dot is not much, it won't fundamentally change the Smn.. but it's something that has been missing (also to multi dot multi bosss / big adds), but this simple solution should be easy to implement and a bases for further reworks..

[Valmaxian]

While I love DoT gameplay, I think it would be better with a multiple DoT style, and it’s extremely unlikely that Yoshi P. would go back to that…

I think what Summoner needs is to actually summon things; the execution is the issue. We need control over which summon we get (perhaps a wheel system, or input similar to Ninja or Dancer). Example: the situation calls for a bit of extra healing - wheel Phoenix, granting the Summoner the AoE HoT. Need BIG AoE damage? Bahamut: player gets to deathflare. Single target? Odin, giving the summoner HARD hitting attacks with zantetsuken, etc. Between these big phases, give us six choices from the original primals: Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Ramuh, Shiva, and Leviathan. Those should have their own rotation style, and bring something small in addition, requiring some thought on the part of the player. Perhaps Garuda improves skill/spell speed for 20 seconds; Ramuh might increase target’s magic damage taken, etc. Another option: big summon phases actually call down the primal, whereas in-between phases are treated as Evoker-style, with the summoner taking on aspects of the primals.

The job still needs to summon things in an epic way; the changes need to simply add rotation complexity and DEFINITELY increase the power level of the job.

[Milea]

most people whining about how egi's how they looked . not so much what they did. that your mistaken we wanted more summons then we didnt want this name one summoner like class or job in any final fantasy game had floating chicken nugget following you around masking itself as titan

ever seen that mean when they compare titan 11 to titan 14. what happened? that was the problem. do think any player wished for this new summoner. no we simply wanted summoner to be summoner have more summons

not hard to understand if played any final fantasy game in past. you wouldnt understand summons never limited to 3 nor did bahamut need reskin. cause creative team is that dense

people thought they hated egis and wanted big summons and now they have them and most ask "how do I make them small they are getting in my way?"

I had to turn off certain effects cause Titan would flash the screen bright yellow which does make some mechanics harder to see.

And egis we controlled and managed which was fun. The issue was they were wonky but would have been better to fix said wonkiness than to remove them.

If you are asking this team that removed role quests entirely to give you special fights against summons I think you are asking for things not in the realm of what they realistically would give us.

In any case if you are saying you didn't ask for how new summoner plays and just wanted better looking summons I would think the compromise lies there. Which means to get closer to old summoner than do something completely new that also fails.
The real issue though I see is many people praise new summoner not because of anything summoner but because it is their idea of an easy job and they want that. This means any feedback for change is going to clash with this and which will be more relevant to SE ears.

[Valmaxian]

The real issue though I see is many people praise new summoner not because of anything summoner but because it is their idea of an easy job and they want that. This means any feedback for change is going to clash with this and which will be more relevant to SE ears.

I disagree with this - most of the criticisms I read and hear about from players is that new SMN is too easy, repetitive, and mindless. And former Summoner, despite its power level, was quite convoluted and played more like an Affliction Warlock than a true Summoner.

Summoner should be (E)IKONIC. Make it challenging, visually stunning, and hit extremely hard, the way the series has always treated Summoners.