Summoner - What it needs.

[HanakoTheGoth]

1.Old Summoner is dead. no it should never come back. if it does come back it need to be completely different caster-job. saying that outright. cause summoner class always been bad ever sense realm reborn new summoner is not any better cause you refuse give us anymore gem summons would result in more interesting game play instead you gave us a job that is only 25% finished brain dead to play its not even full-job at this point

2. do want to know what summoners been wanting yoshi-p. ill say this slowly as possible with all do respect. we want to be able to "Summon" we want to summon shiva, ramuh and leviathan, we like to have odin long side bahamut and phoenix. did we really need bahamut-reskin all do respect this needs to stop we dont want same ol boring kit. we want new stuff sorry

we are tired of having same kit. of garuda, titan and ifirit we had these summons. we dont want your "Igis" cause they are ugly floating chicken nugget isnt titan

3. I suggest you go take your dev team go play final fantasy 11s summoner see what peak summoner gameplay feels like. and give back the players sense of achievement when they fight 1 v 1 battle with there favourite summon. could of done so much more then what we were given.

4. also split summoner and scholar into two different jobs god knows we could use new level1 healer selection on character creation better introduce players to shield healing from from the start then on dps hybrid job at level30

like allowing summoners have very own trails that can queue up once per day to challenge the primal make them submit. in epic battle. make it so these fights arent easy but makes player feel awesome when finally do it

Summoner Quests are poorly made. and frankly boring to do . don't mean hurt anyone's feelings here but just being honest with you. please squire-enix think of players that supported your franchise for decades before realising bad repentive content.

again thank you for trying to read what i posted. again play final fantasy 11 see how real summoner looks like

[Supersnow845]

Summoner needs to be completely rebuilt. New summoner is no more a summoner than old summoner is.

I don’t feel any more like a summoner now than I used to, now I just spam 5 types of ruin 3. Making it 8 types of ruin 3 by introducing shiva, Levi and ramuh changes nothing

11’s SMN is arguably closer to old SMN than it is new SMN

[HanakoTheGoth]

Summoner needs to be completely rebuilt. New summoner is no more a summoner than old summoner is.

I don’t feel any more like a summoner now than I used to, now I just spam 5 types of ruin 3. Making it 8 types of ruin 3 by introducing shiva, Levi and ramuh changes nothing

11’s SMN is arguably closer to old SMN than it is new SMN

Its "Summon-er" not 50 button rotation dot mage with very bad pet design that made you cringe everytime you summoned them. no regradless shiva levi and ramuh needs to be added even if they added some of old kit back to summoner. this isn't good I am on side that they need to do both more summons more better dps rotation

I want to say it was way more then just game play that made 11 summoner better. it was there quests epic battles you had to be able to summon. it was a status system if you managed to get all of the summons in the game. before they made it super easy to get . pet abilities they had. sure summoners wasnt most powerful end game caster. but it was fun if not most fun anyone could ever play . yes smn/rdm was really powerful you can say that. but summons always be primary focus when designing its kit . not what we were given. both new and old all terrible

sure agree with you having more person dps buttons would be nice that should happen. but also more summons would be nice too cant ignore that fact as well this titan, ifirit garuda fetish dev team has to come to an end


besides you have no idea how many ppl got banned from these forms cause rage inducing old summoner was "you want old summoner bacK? you want tri-bind back? want all those terrible abilities back"? are you sane?

[Supersnow845]

It’s “summoner” not “ruin 3 spammer”

That’s the entire problem, the new summoner doesn’t do ANYTHING with its design brief. I’m not arguing for old SMN back I’m saying new SMN is arguably even more flawed and less like a summoner than old SMN it just hides it behind empty pretty lights. You can think whatever you want about old SMN and how much it did or didn’t reflect the job fantasy of a summoner, it doesn’t mean new SMN is an sort of base to work off and not just a flawed pile of nothingness

Adding more primals doesn’t fix summoner because the primals don’t DO anything, they are glorified raidwides. Like literally if the primal didn’t appear on the screen for 3 seconds you could rename the job elementalancer and nobody would even dispute it. But to make the summons actual useable entities then you have to consider pets again. I’m not advocating for egis but a summoner who spawns primals just to do a raidwide and aspect their ruin 3 casts is a pretty poor summoner.

All basically adds up to new summoner not being any closer to a good summoner than old summoner but being a hell of a lot more boring

[SieyaM]

It’s “summoner” not “ruin 3 spammer”

That’s the entire problem, the new summoner doesn’t do ANYTHING with its design brief. I’m not arguing for old SMN back I’m saying new SMN is arguably even more flawed and less like a summoner than old SMN it just hides it behind empty pretty lights. You can think whatever you want about old SMN and how much it did or didn’t reflect the job fantasy of a summoner, it doesn’t mean new SMN is an sort of base to work off and not just a flawed pile of nothingness

Adding more primals doesn’t fix summoner because the primals don’t DO anything, they are glorified raidwides. Like literally if the primal didn’t appear on the screen for 3 seconds you could rename the job elementalancer and nobody would even dispute it. But to make the summons actual useable entities then you have to consider pets again. I’m not advocating for egis but a summoner who spawns primals just to do a raidwide and aspect their ruin 3 casts is a pretty poor summoner.

All basically adds up to new summoner not being any closer to a good summoner than old summoner but being a hell of a lot more boring

Have you played any FF before 13? Summons for the majority of the series have been wide spread high damage magic. It wasn't until fairly recently in the series that they took on more of a permanent pet approach.

[Supersnow845]

Have you played any FF before 13? Summons for the majority of the series have been wide spread high damage magic. It wasn't until fairly recently in the series that they took on more of a permanent pet approach.

Yes and I don’t think that either approach is wrong or right. Why should the older approach be used just because it’s older. Like it’s basically 3 4 5 and 9 versus 10 11 12 with 14 employing both designs throughout its history and 16 kinda straddling both but leaning towards 10 11 and 12

I don’t really thing you can point to a definitive identity of SMN either way by just saying “look at what it was like in the past”

Especially since the arguable most iconic summoner in the series is yuna and yuna is very much the pet style permanent summon, not the “do a magic attack and disappear”

[HanakoTheGoth]

Yes and I don’t think that either approach is wrong or right. Why should the older approach be used just because it’s older. Like it’s basically 3 4 5 and 9 versus 10 11 12 with 14 employing both designs throughout its history and 16 kinda straddling both but leaning towards 10 11 and 12

I don’t really thing you can point to a definitive identity of SMN either way by just saying “look at what it was like in the past”

Especially since the arguable most iconic summoner in the series is yuna and yuna is very much the pet style permanent summon, not the “do a magic attack and disappear”

how old are you? you know your being extremely disrespectful to know. how can sit here not understand how it effects people. who fall in love grew up playing these jobs. if it was not for those games final fantasy 14 would never exist if wasn't the deep love players had for classic rpgs that games. summons always have been apart this franchise every sense final fantasy 3 in nes days. its really disrespectful the whole old summoner the concept as a whole was insult to any and every final fantasy fan who ever enjoyed the summoner role.

Yes I get you like your dots. never said they dont belong on summoner in fact welcome a fulfilling damage rotation. wasnt for 3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11 there wouldnt be a 14 this game would not exist if those were not well recieved loved by the players. no it is not wrong for players loved those game want there favorite to perform like they always have. to have abiltiies and pets they always had . like imagine we must felt when they released old summoner and realm reborn. we got those "Iges" It was disappointiment complete a total failure we didnt want a clone of a warlock from wow. we wanted a summoner job. if final fantasy 11 managed to do it . there no execuse whatever what we got. that feeling you felt when they took old summoner away from you was same feeling disappointiment we felt when they released old summoner in first place if they named that class anything other then summoner wouldnt not got much heat as it did

like imagine if your black mage main they didnt give you fire, blizzard or thunder you had only scathe. thats how it feels to play summoner back then

The core problem is that there's simply nothing for a summoner and their summons to do in this game, as it currently stands.

There's no MP management, so there's no need to choose between summons based on how you're trying to draw down your MP for the duration of the fight. There's no real concept of aspected damage, so there's no need to choose between Ifrit and Shiva based on elemental weaknesses, or to avoid Titan if all the enemies are flying. There's only limited room to make cast times a thing when SE seems hellbent on designing encounters that force you to move around constantly.

Whatever model of summoning you choose (I personally think of Rydia over Yuna), I'm not seeing how you make summons appreciably different from each other, except for in visual effects. And that's the real tragedy.

they dont need be different here if they gonna be different here ya go - make shiva, levithan and ifirit close range summons and that combo with ifirit then make garada. titan and ramuh range. there ya go dont need be that different other there flashy moves and big damage. only ones need be different is bahamut, pheonix and odin watch makes sense as long they large amount aoe damage i dont care happy see happy see thing go boom. pretty sure you can guess what odin gonna be like

How would you even add 4 additional summons, making it 9, while meaningfully differentiating them, adhering to button limits and the 2 minute cycle?

3 of them are actually gem summons 1 of them is actually bahamut pheonix having its own phase. still have that annoying . what ive seen summoners full rotation at the moment is not even a min long . all they really need to do is increase the cool-down between gem summons you be alright besides if wanted a dot class they couldnt easily make 3rd button that is dot that changes name every time you summon for ext if summon titan dot becomes rasp if your summon ifirt it becomes burn they all stack as long as it has different name . all really need do then bring back bane, and change fester back everyone is happy personal they dont need b that different just need feel good using long side other summons that it. as long blow up stuff do alot of damage i dont care

you get your dots back i get my summons everyone is happy with all new summons you can put up 6 different dots on the target with 1 button cause everytime different summon your primary dot changes into new dot without extremely button bloating your hotbar without having 50 button rotation they probably do same to ruin where ruin deals animation changes depending on gem summon you summon for duration but anyway pretty ppl find way to complain.



Best way to explain this to all of you is - Black mage has "Fire" and "Blizzard" wtihout job traits at there base they just do damage what makes them different well one is fire and other is ice. does there need be any difference. not really they do damage your damage deal. how you do damage not is not important question is does it feel good cause explosions. hurts really bad. yes thats why ppl play dps jobs first place. make things suffer we dont need complex math rocket science. we make things suffer, its that simple. who cares how its done as long as things die. keep it simple. no need for complex rocket science

All there needs to be for summoners large ride wide damage - and different summons do same thing just look different and "Ooooh Shiny" blows up the feild so dont care cause your hurting stuff your damage dealer. no need to think just press buttons hurt stuff at its core that is what it is? what else do you want? like seriously

[AmiableApkallu]

All there needs to be for summoners large ride wide damage - and different summons do same thing just look different and "Ooooh Shiny" blows up the feild so dont care cause your hurting stuff your damage dealer. no need to think just press buttons hurt stuff at its core that is what it is? what else do you want? like seriously

(emphasis mine)

I want to have to think which button I should push next, actually.

"Shiny" is all good an well, but I can get that just by watching a movie or TV show. A game should make me think (or test my reflexes, or something).

[Supersnow845]

how old are you? you know your being extremely disrespectful to know. how can sit here not understand how it effects people. who fall in love grew up playing these jobs. if it was not for those games final fantasy 14 would never exist if wasn't the deep love players had for classic rpgs that games. summons always have been apart this franchise every sense final fantasy 3 in nes days. its really disrespectful the whole old summoner the concept as a whole was insult to any and every final fantasy fan who ever enjoyed the summoner role.

Yes I get you like your dots. never said they dont belong on summoner in fact welcome a fulfilling damage rotation. wasnt for 3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11 there wouldnt be a 14 this game would not exist if those were not well recieved loved by the players. no it is not wrong for players loved those game want there favorite to perform like they always have. to have abiltiies and pets they always had . like imagine we must felt when they released old summoner and realm reborn. we got those "Iges" It was disappointiment complete a total failure we didnt want a clone of a warlock from wow. we wanted a summoner job. if final fantasy 11 managed to do it . there no execuse whatever what we got. that feeling you felt when they took old summoner away from you was same feeling disappointiment we felt when they released old summoner in first place if they named that class anything other then summoner wouldnt not got much heat as it did

like imagine if your black mage main they didnt give you fire, blizzard or thunder you had only scathe. thats how it feels to play summoner back then

Can you go ring up the makers of FF 10, 11, 12 and 16 and tell them they are being disrespectful to people who fell in love with SMN in FF3 because none of them are anything similar to FF 3

And for the 3rd time I’ve literally never mentioned DOT’s one way or another

This is specifically adressing your criticism saying that summoner isn't true to form because the summons are not operating as pets, and I am simply saying that is not true. I wouldn't consider Yuna to be a pet style summoner either. Summons in X have a fixed duration and while you can control the for a time it's at the expense of the rest of the party. They are not permanent fixtures in combat and Yuna does not control one every moment, she in fact has a plethora of skills and magic at her disposal outside of it.

I said it’s no more OR LESS a summoner than the old SMN because new summoner maps onto 3 4 5 and 9 about as much as old SMN maps onto 10 11 12 and 16. Neither is more right than the other

[SieyaM]

Yes and I don’t think that either approach is wrong or right. Why should the older approach be used just because it’s older. Like it’s basically 3 4 5 and 9 versus 10 11 12 with 14 employing both designs throughout its history and 16 kinda straddling both but leaning towards 10 11 and 12

I don’t really thing you can point to a definitive identity of SMN either way by just saying “look at what it was like in the past”

Especially since the arguable most iconic summoner in the series is yuna and yuna is very much the pet style permanent summon, not the “do a magic attack and disappear”

This is specifically adressing your criticism saying that summoner isn't true to form because the summons are not operating as pets, and I am simply saying that is not true. I wouldn't consider Yuna to be a pet style summoner either. Summons in X have a fixed duration and while you can control the for a time it's at the expense of the rest of the party. They are not permanent fixtures in combat and Yuna does not control one every moment, she in fact has a plethora of skills and magic at her disposal outside of it.