Community supports imbalance/bad game design?

[Rithy255]

Snip

1. You're right that strong upsides are much needed, being against one skill doesn't mean I'm against the idea of jobs having strong upsides, though theirs going to be instances where i genuinely do disagree, theirs still a extent to where a job needs to be balanced and feel good to play with.

2. Rotations are very important to gameplay and should be made unique, they can be a unique thing every tank is builder spender burst they follow the same pattern and while just slapping on a unique rotation and calling it a day isn't the full solution its a Major part in the puzzle on how tanks feel very samey, Why's their no Procs on any tanks? why are there only generic 1, 2, 3's? ect. These things being addressed helps majorly with making tanks feel unique. Healer would also benefit from this because healers deserve similar treatment in gaing actual variance in damaging skills, infact the situation with healers is more dire on that front.

3. You can say tanks can have a equivalently strong upside, but in reality what would that even look like? how would this upside both not matter in high end but also feel strong and unique in the content that makes it equivalently strong, again it just feels like your trying to justify bad design because it's "unique" if Gunbreaker could one shot random dungeon bosses sometimes that would be "unique" but it would blatantly obviously be unique in a bad way, such as Warrior becoming Immortal for 8s in a down time of 17s in AOE situations in inherently a bad design. This isn't just "unbalanced" this is egregiously unbalanced in AOE situations. I even suggested maybe instead of putting the mass AOE on a 25s cooldown, It might be a bit more fair on your 120s that way you get to feel "OP" every 2 minutes for 15s but not be completely immortal and not even need a healer.

4. The problem is both universal and Warrior related, yes we have too much mitigation and tanks not taking enough damage, but the point is even if we fixed that blood whetting would still be a massive outlier and a issue, If we want tanks and healers to feel relative and contribute to helping each other, rather then tanks just doing the healers job.

5. Dungeons are designed in a way that will likely never change It's a even more unrealistic ask for them to change dungeons for the sake of making warrior balanced rather then just not making its AOE as broken. Even if they changed future dungeons Warrior would still be "op" in anything once it gets its short CD to 100.

The way I see it is, you made this conclusion that if your against skills like bloodwhetting you must be pro homogenization, when that's simply not the truth you can be in favour of homogenization for one skill while bringing up the design and uniqueness on different levels. No matter how against homogenization I am if something is that egregious to me I am not going to defend it just for the sake of it.

[Carighan]

Oh I should have said that I absolutely feel differentiation in gameplay is also good, but it wouldn't fix the underlying game design issue I think, for that externally-visible differentiations are needed, jobs of a single role need to better or worse in specific situations, with those situations coming up frequently enough to not automatically exclude someone.

A good comparison here is TBC-era WoW, which had its then 3 tanks (4 if you include a very gimmicky fight >.> ) be quite different. One took less damage than the others, which was great, except they were also more vulnerable if you excluded that reduction, and some attacks would bypass it. Which is where another tank came in that was a huuuge HP-sponge, with comparatively little reduction. They cost the healers extra mana, but in turn could survive an increased amount of punishment whatever the source, assuming your healers could stomach the drain. And the third tank excelled in aggro production, which raised the damage cap until the aggro cap was hit in fights with partial threat shedding mechanics, and also trivialized add pickups, which worked well with their increased amount of CC that naturally worked on adds but not the boss itself.

So you ended up with:
* Tank&Spank a boss? Bring a warrior!
* Lots of DoTs and/or other special mechanics? Some druids are bear!
* Adds popping up and need to be handled frequently throughout the fight? Let the pally do that for you!

The issue here is how FFXIV doesn't want to engage with variety. At all. Like you say, you even assume dungeon design will never change, yes, that is the problem. Exactly. Just that it affects everything. Basic encounter design of bosses, trash and dungeons. Classes. Basic fight mechanics. An utter unwillingness to finally hit Ctrl+A -> Delete on a whole subsystem, and accept it needs to be trashed and re-done. Self-reinvention is something FFXIV needs desperately.

And like I said, I'm not saying Bloodwhetting wouldn't need changes. I just would not want to see the aspect "Yo, against a pack of mobs I heal myself, kthxbai" removed. Rebalanced or modified to trigger of a different scaling metric, sure. But the net result of being the best-surviving tank whenever there's multiple targets to heal is interesting, and should be encouraged. And I say this as someone who plays 3 out of 4 tank classes, excluding Warrior. I got no stake in this.

I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your comments as wanting to remove (not just rebalance) this aspect.

[theunhappypotato]

do you even play tanks?

[Carighan]

do you even play tanks?

OP? Most likely not, given the weird factual mistakes. It's like those four threads someone clearly had ChatGPT generate, seems to be a common thing now.

[Nero-Voidstails]

tell me you want to erase healer without saying it x)

[Derio]

Are we talking about DRK in dungeons or DRK in raids?

For the most part in raids DRK is fine and this is coming from someone who MT as DRK in the recent raid tier.

Even in expert dungeons DRK is fine. DRK healing imbalance is the leveling side and devs do not care about leveling, look how long it took for them to change the tank aoe's to earlier levels.

DRK has the most self mitigation out of all the tanks. This is only a problem when your healer is dead or if your healer is bad. We dont want DRK to be like Warrior. We want DRK to be a unique version of itself