League levels of toxic behavour in game.

[Rainfallen]

'you pull you tank' is a terrible mindset.

sure pulling ahead in a rush isnt nice, but not doing your job as a tank isnt either.
you are still part of a group and there are two other people with you.
being terrible to two unrelated people because one person is terrible is an a**hole move.

it's also reportable to GMs as an offense for griefing, ESPECIALLY if they're throwing an extra temper tantrum by turning off their stance!! as a tank is refusing to do what their role responsibilities are. if i'm having some bad lag/ping days, i'll just casually go like "hey, spotty internet, i might not catch it off you in time so please try not to pull ahead of me" but if they pull ahead and they die, that's on me for not grabbing fast enough, internet be damned. I apologise and move on.

YPYT tanks are some of the most awful, insufferable, whiniest casual players i have ever met that think they're the main character of a collaborative game. I haven't met a single higher end content player doing this, it's always the casuals

[Themarvin]

Gate Keeping at Forked Tower is a problem too... but the DM's ignore it entirely....

[Shinku_Tachi]

'you pull you tank' is a terrible mindset.

sure pulling ahead in a rush isnt nice, but not doing your job as a tank isnt either.
you are still part of a group and there are two other people with you.
being terrible to two unrelated people because one person is terrible is an a**hole move.

(Again, speaking as a DPS main myself)

The only time I've ever been unnecessarily held up in a dungeon (aside from this new thing in Dawntrail, with tanks soloing bosses when the party dies), is when we get some hero / gotta go fast DPS runs off ahead, bringing back a bunch of mobs that a tank (or healer) wasn't ready for or couldn't handle, causing wipes. When things would be faster just taking smaller groups and the DPS beating them down quickly.

In my experience, situations like this are easily avoidable with communication. With the DPS communicating they can handle bigger pulls, but conceding to the tank/healer, if they can't. Rather than having a rogue DPS, running off doing whatever they please, grieving the group, because they want to shave off a few seconds, but end up causing the group to lose even more time.

[Gwenkatsu]

tbh i dont understand how tanks are that far behind a dps. like, are you standing still on the first pack? you have sprint and can aoe on the go. and, for the dps, i mean i have no problem if they do it while i tank. i have no problem doing it, when i dps. but use arm's length and bloodbath. should really be a non-issue

The problem is that even being half a second too late can totally mess up the pull, and some players use all their kit to outrun me, no matter how efficient I use my movement abilities. So the DD jumps into the group, I follow immediately and AE, but the healer has already casted something, my AE gets lost in a snapshot, and now the aggro is all over the place. If you think this is efficient in any way shape or form, I do not know what to tell you (well, not in a moderated environment anyway).

@OP: When you get such clowns in your group, there's no point in talking to them. Their behaviour is senseless, so you can't talk any sense into them. Finish the pull, then leave - better to do something else for the next 30 minutes than cope with this nonsense. And blacklist them - the next time you get into a group with some "Unnamed player 1", you already know what to expect and can leave immediately, instead of wasting more time on a clown.

[velkettin]

The problem is that even being half a second too late can totally mess up the pull, and some players use all their kit to outrun me, no matter how efficient I use my movement abilities. So the DD jumps into the group, I follow immediately and AE, but the healer has already casted something, my AE gets lost in a snapshot, and now the aggro is all over the place. If you think this is efficient in any way shape or form, I do not know what to tell you (well, not in a moderated environment anyway).

@OP: When you get such clowns in your group, there's no point in talking to them. Their behaviour is senseless, so you can't talk any sense into them. Finish the pull, then leave - better to do something else for the next 30 minutes than cope with this nonsense. And blacklist them - the next time you get into a group with some "Unnamed player 1", you already know what to expect and can leave immediately, instead of wasting more time on a clown.

on what planet does being slightly behind to a pull constitute enough of a problem to get upset about? if aggro is "all over the place," what fixes that? hitting your aoe one (1) time. melee jobs, usually the ones to pull ahead, have enough self healing to sustain themselves on one pack long enough for you to reach them even if they are dumb enough to just stay put and not bring anything to you. no one cares if a few mobs get missed-just hit your aoe again. you're wasting way more of your time eating the 30 minutes over something you can fix in 3 seconds.

[ChrysOCE]

The problem is that even being half a second too late can totally mess up the pull, and some players use all their kit to outrun me, no matter how efficient I use my movement abilities. So the DD jumps into the group, I follow immediately and AE, but the healer has already casted something, my AE gets lost in a snapshot, and now the aggro is all over the place. If you think this is efficient in any way shape or form, I do not know what to tell you (well, not in a moderated environment anyway).

@OP: When you get such clowns in your group, there's no point in talking to them. Their behaviour is senseless, so you can't talk any sense into them. Finish the pull, then leave - better to do something else for the next 30 minutes than cope with this nonsense. And blacklist them - the next time you get into a group with some "Unnamed player 1", you already know what to expect and can leave immediately, instead of wasting more time on a clown.

we are talking about dungeons though. what dungeon is something going to go that wrong, that quickly? you can pick up the enmity with an aoe, even if you "miss" a gcd. it really doesn't matter. and again, if a dps (myself included) wants to do this, they should also be using their tools - arm's length, bloodbath, second wind. like, come on, what are we talking about here

[Sunhwapark]

The problem is that even being half a second too late can totally mess up the pull.

No it can't ????
It's literally trash enemies and not something that locks on to a target dealing 600k raw damage within 1 second.
If Aggro is truly all over the place, it likely means the tank didn't turn their stance on at all.
Heavensward and Stormblood expansions have long passed us, tanks don't need to do much anymore to establish and retain #1 aggro.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I had a feeling when they say "mess up the pull", they're talking about the latency one can witness between the time they press the AoE, where their actual AoE happens, and where the actual moving enemies' hitbox would've been from server side. Which does means some of those mobs will ping pong for a tiny bit until the tank can establish the enmity proper.

I've had that happened couple of times, but I don't think that's a game ender either. Inconvenient? Slightly, imho. But nothing like slapping AoE Mit, Clememecy (if you're a PLD synced to lv71 or below lol), hurling ranged atk via tab target/enmity table, or just let them non-tank play with their new friend for a bit longer while you gather the rest of the wall pull at the end of the hall couldn't work. Nobody's going splat in 15s.

Like Supersnow845 mentioned earlier, think of it as using their HP to cushion few hits for the tank. They too, counts as party's resources.

Man as I wrote this, I miss using Aurora HoT ticks to generate aggro...

[MayuAmakura]

Mentality that tank should pull everything and we stay behind is only working in WoW because mobs there are super dangerous and a lot more stats matter where you will get crushing blow or crit and die in one hit + get dazed. Here it's the opposite hence why we get most people rushing through dungeons as fast as possible.

But here's the thing, ffxiv dungeons are intuitive boring mess so naturally tank will want to pull whole dungeon and expect that a healer can heal through it. Dps also pulls everything not to be some "gigachad" but to help tank with mobs and get dungeon faster for everyone. They have sprint + second wind + bloodthirst and some have even shields! If a dps cannot use that then it's their fault for dying. But you as a tank should follow or even better, be the one that rushes and pulls everything so others don't have to do your job.

If you all die by mega pulls, it could mean one of 3 things;

- Healer is a complete bot but not even using proper plugins
- Healer is a new player that doesn't understand pressure
- You are playing one of ARR dungeons where there are not many defensive abilities and thus you pulled way too much.

Also if someone is new, type that in the chat and I'll go slowly, hence how I did always. If healer cannot keep up with me, then I'll slow down so player can heal properly. In case where I'm dps, if tank says he is new, sure i'll stay behind him and not pull as dps.

But crying over ''im tank, i pull" and "you pull you tank" is cringe.

[TaleraRistain]

which is fine if they want to. but if a reaper does that, then they have the tools to survive and should be using them, till the tank catches up

They should, but many don't. They just keep running away then they're left with a mess of mobs and the tank and healer aren't there yet.