Thread: Please confirm if there will be a 7.5 Ultimate before next Savage Release

Originally Posted by Atma

If you cannot engage with the content because you are playing casually, then it is by rote definition not casual content. It is not a problem with 'NA Players conflating things', this is you trying to create a distinction without a difference.

"You can engage with the content, just stop playing casually" is the functional cornerstone of your argument. I mean come on.

No that's reductive... as I said earlier, I played casually arr - sb (alphascape)... at no point during that time (ft undergrad and also working ft) did I unironically think the game's content wasn't "for me."
I still did savage here and there via pf, stil pursued relic weapons etc etc.. Did i clear things a lot slower? of course, I was playing casually. Was I able to still do the content? 100% yes.

It isn't a distinction without a difference.
Refusing to engage in content due to time constraints (hence playing casually) isn't the same thing as, the content itself, literally bars me from being able to do it.

How come people on JP who play casually (I was one of them, when I lived there) still clear things? people on JP don't unironically argue that because they play casually, they're incapable of doing things.

Originally Posted by Striker44

In that case, every single MMO in existence has practically no content...

Dungeons, Raids, Reputation Grinds (Dailies) are all standard in MMOs and expected to be done repeatedly over long stretches of time. They are absolutely valid to mention.

I love the argument of "I'm right...you just have to ignore everything that make me wrong" lol.

There's not enough incentive outside of glamours to farm Dungeons and Alliance Raids. And even if it had, the gameplay for dungeons specifically is abysmal. There is 0 variation and challenge, and if you know people who would enjoy farming these, then good for you and them, I guess.

The substantial drop in sub count supports my point rather than yours. For live service games, I don't think there's any argument more important than community satisfaction. Not every MMO is going through the same thing FFXIV is, which means there's a clear difference. People only leave games when they are out of reasons to play.

Originally Posted by Atma

And at the end of the day, none of that even answers the fundamental question of "am I having fun."

I agree, am I having fun, should be really the only metric that matters. Where I part ways with some casuals (disproportinately na, which I play on now having moved back to Hawaii) is the notion that because xyz content requires things (let's say discord, guides, etc) that somehow "inhibits" they're ability to have fun. Sure that's a turnoff for some people, but not all. Casuals aren't a monolith. Some just have time constraints, but are otherwise great and clear things just fine.. slower, but fine. Other casuals have this entitlement attitude, that suggests merely paying a sub means everything (barring lets say ultimates) should be ez, require no vc no studying no guides nothing.. just zone in, clear and be done with it. That is a very NA perspective to have.

Also for context, I'm not a JP player, I was just on JP cause I was there for a bit and ping on primal was awful. I didn't shoehorn myself into groups and I didn't get carried months after either.. When I had time, I did some savage floors and cleared some the week they released in pf. When I didn't have, I'd skip the tier entirely (hw and most of sb until alphascape).

I think this whole casual mc shc hc discussion is void of nuance. Having been a casual, I firmly believe, while having time constraints, I was still capable of doing the content as it existed. I don't think it being more "slow" "painful" etc etc is the same thing as "being barred" from doing so, solely because of my irl time constraints.

Originally Posted by Atma

Here's what I'd call midcore/etc, btw.


1. They need to implement scaling gear. I do not understand why this game continues it's indefinite trend of 'dungeon gear is worthless except for glamours and a temporary bump in ilvl till you get your 'starter set' at x9.' It's freaking awful design.

2. Week 1-2, people wipe a lot - a lot - but tend to clear within the duty finder limit. Weeks 3-6, it's still challenging, but gear is starting to 'catch up.' because we finally have scaling gear. Without reading strats, without having to be on VC, etc etc. The mechanics might be hard, but they're still intuitive enough to where you pick them up organically (and then, ideally, there's a 'next step' that's even more tuned. Yes, I'm saying we need a M+ equivalent, BECAUSE WE DO.

3. Ending the dumb 'live or die, no middle ground' meta.

4a. Fundamentally, the 2 minute meta as a whole needs to die, thus
4b. Ending the dependence on perfectly stacking buffs at 2m intervals ad nauseum to create comically exaggerated burst windows.

Well I think it's important to not presume disinterest in something necessarily means that person found it "too hard." I don't craft, gather, pvp, rp etc etc etc.. because I don't care to, not because it's difficult. There are people who are otherwise casual for a whole host of reasons who actually would do just fine in savage (anecdotal i know, but I've played with these people, some even went on to clear tiers entirely, as well as ultimates during the shb content drought)

hardcore midcore casual are all arbitrary lines drawn in the sand. If you poll 10 casuals from all the regions, you'll get mixed results on where 1 ends and the other begins. I had casuals in my FT reclears.. these people literally don't do savage or ultimates. They just play casually here and there, and are able to commit some time a couple nights a week to moving the needle in FT. Now some casuals are allergic to discord, that's their problem, not the content.. like I said, I've been a casual for years, but never saw vc as a hurlde (I literally just mute myself).

1. I agree, I'd delete tomes entirely, and make the gear from dungeons, af armor, and ex trials more relevant, along with the crafted gear and obviously savage. Tomes are trash
2. I don't see reading strats and/or vc as a problem, so we'll agree to disagree.
3. Idk what this refers to, this tier was pretting forgiving, we had deaths and dmg downs on floors and still cleared week 1.
4. No problem ending 2 min meta.

I want MSQ to raise the floor of the game entirely.. I don't think casuals should be "Afraid" "Intimidated" etc etc by challenges.. I actually find what I'd consider pandering to be incredibly patronizing. As if people are incapable of improving.

Originally Posted by Bryson

Well I think it's important to not presume disinterest in something necessarily means that person found it "too hard." I don't craft, gather, pvp, rp etc etc etc.. because I don't care to, not because it's difficult. There are people who are otherwise casual for a whole host of reasons who actually would do just fine in savage (anecdotal i know, but I've played with these people, some even went on to clear tiers entirely, as well as ultimates during the shb content drought)

hardcore midcore casual are all arbitrary lines drawn in the sand. If you poll 10 casuals from all the regions, you'll get mixed results on where 1 ends and the other begins. I had casuals in my FT reclears.. these people literally don't do savage or ultimates. They just play casually here and there, and are able to commit some time a couple nights a week to moving the needle in FT. Now some casuals are allergic to discord, that's their problem, not the content.. like I said, I've been a casual for years, but never saw vc as a hurlde (I literally just mute myself).

I agree, that's just why I'm giving mine just to provide a context point.

For 3, there are ample examples of 'live or die, no middle ground' mechs in the game. Pushbacks into walls that result in either instant death or bleeds that almost assure your death are some examples that just pop into my head.

I'd keep tomes but in the same capacity as a 'pity prize...' existing just to make sure you don't get hosed over if you go through a draught of nothing dropping for you. Pity prizes are important, it just sucks to go weeks without anything you need dropping. I don't think they should be the primary source of gearing, but careful - this is blasphemous talk to a lot of people.

I'm not 'allergic' to discord. I just do not think that content in games should be designed that it is an assumption. There are plenty of people in this world who either have social anxiety, or simply have no interest in being on voice chat with randos. Mine principally is the latter. If a mechanic can't be conveyed in short form through text, it probably only belongs in content designed for higher tiers of play. That's all. I get it, it's an opinion like anything else, but the line for me kind of breaks down at 'if it can't be done with only the tools the game intrinsically affords me, I don't think it can reasonably be called casual content.'

they better hope there is a 2nd ultimate or this game is gonna die with 7.5 potentially lasting a year at the current pace.

Originally Posted by seolhyun

they better hope there is a 2nd ultimate or this game is gonna die with 7.5 potentially lasting a year at the current pace.

game can't "die" when you have hundreds of thousands of msq andies and rpers. Most recent lucky bancho census had 880k active players.
Also, I'm more doomer and don't believe DT will have a 2nd ultimate. Even if it is ready for release, I could see them sitting on it and releasing in 8.1. I don't think they'd unironically have ultimate, OC/FT, and criterion all throughout .5.. doesn't sound like SE.