So... Dungeon healers is done for?

[Carighan]

600 main stat is an entire extra piece of left side gear (current chest piece gives you like 540 main stat). So every 2 tiers we are basically gaining an entire extra piece of left side gear. It’s just moving too fast

That's an interesting point I had not considered, but I agree then. I mean to a degree it makes sense, a full 700->760 upgrade is roughly 700-ish total itemlevel gained over all pieces, so it makes sense that I gain about as much stats as a whole extra item. But you are right of course in that this feels like too much, and it's also an issue because 760 is not the end. I would assume this whole "one extra item worth of stats" could be the entire expansion, comparing the lowest proper obtained sets to the highest ones, that'd be okay. But it should never be more than that, really.

And then if that "squish" would be propagated downwards through all old levels and expansions, we'd see a significant total drop in the power curve (and a number squish like hell in general, we'd probably be sitting at 240-300ish ilvl right now instead of 760), but there'd still be a neat progression. Still, I think like in WoW, it'd be wildly unpopular because it "feels bad".

[Eesh]

I think it's great. This way, the DPS and tank can raise a healer that died instead of it leading to an inevitable wipe. It'll be super useful for mentor roulette and struggling parties. I don't think people will use them or even carry them around unless they absolutely have to, so healers have nothing to fear imo.

This is, I think, the actual outlook the devs have. Instead of doom and gloom it's now 'Healers now don't need to have anxiety that if they die the team is going to be pissed off. Or, worse, that the tank is just going to solo the boss because they're on an ego trip.

[Shurrikhan]

I'd rather have raises based on resources and scarcity that actually matters as a middle ground, instead of an arbitrary amount of raises per fight.

A capped number of battle rezzes gives exactly that resource scarcity, just without having to visit a vendor after every use / having to fight against auction-house goblins just to be allowed access to shared party kit...

Moreover, he specified "in raids" in that WoW comparison. There, dungeons are counted all as one fight, sharing the max three charges for the full course (though recharging --at a rate of 1 per 10 minutes-- even while in combat, iirc), while XIV would likewise be able to do whatever they wanted with any distinctions between the two.

Honestly people really need to start making more PFs with 1 tank 3 dps it's going to be a lot faster to clear. Maybe that would get the message across or maybe not who knows...

Healer is a grief role in dungeons that serves no purpose other then to slow down your dungeon run because it brings nothing of value to a dungeon now, Not even rez (which yeah smn/rdm could already do but its a lot more showing now everyone can rez).

There's some serious sampling bias to consider there, though, as anyone likely to use PF in the first place is much less likely to be taking the unnecessary damage or avoidable fatalities despite their own/tank's sustain that would allow healers to actually be a slight boon to clear time. Put what would be the average DF party after removing the typical PF dungeoneers and you might find it little if at all accelerated by going 1-tank-3-dps.

For my part, I just want to see about an eight of the overheal kit pruned in favor of other outputs and 100% offensive-uptime healer damage to be increased about halfway up towards the lowest of DPS consequent to those changes, and more damage done to tanks (such as by removing Tank Mastery and nerfing only the hardest hitting TBs in the game that might otherwise become unsurvivable without external mit).

The first should have happened just to make the solo experience of healers less egregious already, and the second, to make tanking less dull even for tanks.

don't forget that most DPS have string Heals too so ya the Trinity is dead. also if people would stop complaining about wipe and mistake all those change would never have happen making healer so useless that it is the most "inefficient" way now

The trinity is "dead" only when whatever arbitrary division of arbitrary categories is split significantly between optimal and "developer-intended" play. In the same way that a job is "dead" when it isn't even decently competitive in the content it's supposed to be allowed to run, or a game is "dead" when it lacks the player counts necessary to carry the experiences it was built around and would require for it to leverage its potential.

That another role simply has access to a specific capacity (though, roughly a third of all rezzers haven't been healers from the start, tanks have had at least indirect access to both self-healing and external mitigation from the start, and even DPS have had access to self-sustain from the start, so...), though, is not that.

No part of having <a role more focused on increasing raid sustain [i.e., healing, barriers, temporary overhealth, %DR, or anything else that makes you live longer without having to CC or kite] through redirecting attackers' attention to a specific unit and applying sustain to said distracting unit, ideally benefitting their party's offenses through handier positioning> requires that no one else can ever partake in the gameplay of redirecting an enemy('s attacks), applying sustain, or positioning enemies. No part of having <a role with a greater than average part of its kit devoted to dealing damage> requires that others have no gameplay interest or significant agency in their damage-dealing.

[Carighan]

More so because plenty MMORPGs get away with hybrid jobs genuinely being weaker at each hybrid aspect in return for having two.

But importantly those games (early EQ1, GW2, such stuff) are built around the classes being that way. Pure healers cannot be useful if not enough damage is ever dealt to even engage one pure healer. Naturally the existence of proper hybrid healers who can do healing + X (like current healers being all hybrid healers who do DPS+Healing!) displaces the idea of a pure healer (who spends ~all time on healing) because there is never enough healing need for even two hybrid healers, nevermind a single pure one.

And the same applies to other concepts. We need the battle system to change to meaningfully change combat classes.