So... Dungeon healers is done for?

[Nero-Voidstails]

do t forget that most DPS have string Heals too so ya the Trinity is dead. also if people would stop complaining about wipe and mistake all those change would never have happen making healer so useless that it is the most "inefficient" way now

[Shurrikhan]

I'd rather have raises based on resources and scarcity that actually matters as a middle ground, instead of an arbitrary amount of raises per fight.

A capped number of battle rezzes gives exactly that resource scarcity, just without having to visit a vendor after every use / having to fight against auction-house goblins just to be allowed access to shared party kit...

Moreover, he specified "in raids" in that WoW comparison. There, dungeons are counted all as one fight, sharing the max three charges for the full course (though recharging --at a rate of 1 per 10 minutes-- even while in combat, iirc), while XIV would likewise be able to do whatever they wanted with any distinctions between the two.

Honestly people really need to start making more PFs with 1 tank 3 dps it's going to be a lot faster to clear. Maybe that would get the message across or maybe not who knows...

Healer is a grief role in dungeons that serves no purpose other then to slow down your dungeon run because it brings nothing of value to a dungeon now, Not even rez (which yeah smn/rdm could already do but its a lot more showing now everyone can rez).

There's some serious sampling bias to consider there, though, as anyone likely to use PF in the first place is much less likely to be taking the unnecessary damage or avoidable fatalities despite their own/tank's sustain that would allow healers to actually be a slight boon to clear time. Put what would be the average DF party after removing the typical PF dungeoneers and you might find it little if at all accelerated by going 1-tank-3-dps.

For my part, I just want to see about an eight of the overheal kit pruned in favor of other outputs and 100% offensive-uptime healer damage to be increased about halfway up towards the lowest of DPS consequent to those changes, and more damage done to tanks (such as by removing Tank Mastery and nerfing only the hardest hitting TBs in the game that might otherwise become unsurvivable without external mit).

The first should have happened just to make the solo experience of healers less egregious already, and the second, to make tanking less dull even for tanks.

don't forget that most DPS have string Heals too so ya the Trinity is dead. also if people would stop complaining about wipe and mistake all those change would never have happen making healer so useless that it is the most "inefficient" way now

The trinity is "dead" only when whatever arbitrary division of arbitrary categories is split significantly between optimal and "developer-intended" play. In the same way that a job is "dead" when it isn't even decently competitive in the content it's supposed to be allowed to run, or a game is "dead" when it lacks the player counts necessary to carry the experiences it was built around and would require for it to leverage its potential.

That another role simply has access to a specific capacity (though, roughly a third of all rezzers haven't been healers from the start, tanks have had at least indirect access to both self-healing and external mitigation from the start, and even DPS have had access to self-sustain from the start, so...), though, is not that.

No part of having <a role more focused on increasing raid sustain [i.e., healing, barriers, temporary overhealth, %DR, or anything else that makes you live longer without having to CC or kite] through redirecting attackers' attention to a specific unit and applying sustain to said distracting unit, ideally benefitting their party's offenses through handier positioning> requires that no one else can ever partake in the gameplay of redirecting an enemy('s attacks), applying sustain, or positioning enemies. No part of having <a role with a greater than average part of its kit devoted to dealing damage> requires that others have no gameplay interest or significant agency in their damage-dealing.

[NobleWinter]

I think Phoenix Down in combat will be great for the health of the game. Being in a dungeon where a Tank solos a boss from 80% is definitely infuriating. Phoenix Downs don't cost MP either so I imagine a lot of healers will actually be the ones to use them for efficiency. If I can find the time to hardcast a rez I can just as easily use an item with a cast time.

[Altina_Orion]

Dungeons are too easy, thats why healers feel useless in them. They simply don't punish you for underutilized tools, so they end up being a green dps. I also would like harder dungeons.

[Carighan]

Dungeons are too easy, thats why healers feel useless in them. They simply don't punish you for underutilized tools, so they end up being a green dps. I also would like harder dungeons.

Technically we have them, they're called Criterion. But they're few and far between.

[Altina_Orion]

Technically we have them, they're called Criterion. But they're few and far between.

Yes, but when i said harder i didnt mean a 4 person savage level dungeon. I meant make dungeon not be jokes

[Wyndam]

Yes, but when i said harder i didnt mean a 4 person savage level dungeon. I meant make dungeon not be jokes

The problem is, in part, how easy it is to out gear the dungeons. If you go in when barely scraping by the item level requirements they're a lot harder. The first few weeks of an expansion before crafted, tome, and Savage gear come out people are always going, "Whoa, they made dungeons hard this expansion!" Then the gear comes out and we're back to stomping them. This would be like that period last year where Neo Kingdom and EX gear was the best available but many people were still hitting endgame fresh and working their way into that gear.

[Supersnow845]

The problem is, in part, how easy it is to out gear the dungeons. If you go in when barely scraping by the item level requirements they're a lot harder. The first few weeks of an expansion before crafted, tome, and Savage gear come out people are always going, "Whoa, they made dungeons hard this expansion!" Then the gear comes out and we're back to stomping them. This would be like that period last year where Neo Kingdom and EX gear was the best available but many people were still hitting endgame fresh and working their way into that gear.

You could fix that by syncing the dungeons harder

You shouldn’t be able to outscale them as hard as you do

[Carighan]

The problem is, in part, how easy it is to out gear the dungeons. If you go in when barely scraping by the item level requirements they're a lot harder. The first few weeks of an expansion before crafted, tome, and Savage gear come out people are always going, "Whoa, they made dungeons hard this expansion!" Then the gear comes out and we're back to stomping them. This would be like that period last year where Neo Kingdom and EX gear was the best available but many people were still hitting endgame fresh and working their way into that gear.

I suspect this is a problem that could be solved more generally, but it'd be wildly unpopular. WoW tried this before, "flattening the curve", and while various number squishes were necessary over the years, they've never really stuck to a flatter curve, they went right back.

What I mean by that is: Reduce the relative upgrade from +X itemlevel. (Or alternative reduce the +itemlevel we get from each "tier")

This in turn would significantly curb the power gain from one set of items to the next, as say an upgrade from one savage tier to the next could be +6 itemlevels, not +30 (and likely the extreme one after gives weapons +1 itemlevel from the savage before, not +10, etc etc). But it'd also be wildly unpopular of course because this would mean that there is virtually no perceivable power increase from having this better gear.

[Wyndam]

I suspect this is a problem that could be solved more generally, but it'd be wildly unpopular. WoW tried this before, "flattening the curve", and while various number squishes were necessary over the years, they've never really stuck to a flatter curve, they went right back.

What I mean by that is: Reduce the relative upgrade from +X itemlevel. (Or alternative reduce the +itemlevel we get from each "tier")

This in turn would significantly curb the power gain from one set of items to the next, as say an upgrade from one savage tier to the next could be +6 itemlevels, not +30 (and likely the extreme one after gives weapons +1 itemlevel from the savage before, not +10, etc etc). But it'd also be wildly unpopular of course because this would mean that there is virtually no perceivable power increase from having this better gear.

Yeah, I think you're right. My WoW days are ancient history now so it's hard to think back to it and remember specific examples but I think this would have the same net effect as tighter item level syncing. You get the upgrades in theory and on paper, but not in practice.