Thoughts about the LL?

[Atma]

Comparing to WoW is a bad metric in terms of subscriber numbers. Even on it's ABSOLUTE WORST year, WoW still had more subscribers than probably the peak of 14

Depends on if you're talking subs or active players. During WoW's darkest times of Shadowlands and one of FFXIV's brightest periods of ShB, they surpassed WoW as the the MMO with the most active players. WoW 'cheats' in this regard by selling 6 month subs with special mounts/etc to get people to pay for subs even if they are not actively playing, or do not play for the entire timeframe.

But spiritually I agree, Dawntrail is the Shadowlands of 14. Endwalkers rush job started the downfall imo. They just don't have enough patience to focus on a solid expansion anymore, they need to make it a forced two-parter rush job with a very divided story.

Dawntrail is more the Warlords of Draenor of 14. We need a Shadowlands of 14. Wait, I know what you're already typing, but hear me out.

While Shadowlands was incredibly poorly implemented, it was what WoW rather fundamentally needed - they needed to break things, shatter molds, redesign entire systems from the ground up. This is what is desperately needed for 14 right now - an expansion where the developers unabashedly say "Things are going to break. Things are going to not work out the way we intended. Class balance might be trash for a while. But things are going to get different - so that they can get better."

WoW did that and re-emerged with Dragonflight, one of it's best received expansions in ages. Had they not done so, WoW would be in an equally dire state as FFXIV is in right now. We NEED a Shadowlands (but... y'know... not as bad. please...)

[TeresaFortell]

Depends on if you're talking subs or active players. During WoW's darkest times of Shadowlands and one of FFXIV's brightest periods of ShB, they surpassed WoW as the the MMO with the most active players. WoW 'cheats' in this regard by selling 6 month subs with special mounts/etc to get people to pay for subs even if they are not actively playing, or do not play for the entire timeframe.



Dawntrail is more the Warlords of Draenor of 14. We need a Shadowlands of 14. Wait, I know what you're already typing, but hear me out.

While Shadowlands was incredibly poorly implemented, it was what WoW rather fundamentally needed - they needed to break things, shatter molds, redesign entire systems from the ground up. This is what is desperately needed for 14 right now - an expansion where the developers unabashedly say "Things are going to break. Things are going to not work out the way we intended. Class balance might be trash for a while. But things are going to get different - so that they can get better."

WoW did that and re-emerged with Dragonflight, one of it's best received expansions in ages. Had they not done so, WoW would be in an equally dire state as FFXIV is in right now. We NEED a Shadowlands (but... y'know... not as bad. please...)

We don't need an SL or even WOD. What is required is a quality that can match that of WOTLK, which was something that SHB offered. It brought people into the game because there was a fantastically written story that drew people in. Granted, there were changes such as removing TP which was a good choice, but the story, in this regard, was the main focus and draw that caused a larger playerbase.

[seolhyun]

they spent so long in the DD and it wont even be out for 2 more months lol