Quest based leveling: Future problem?

[Masamune1004]

I am at work so cannot write the 14-page manifesto of why I believe quest-driven leveling (aka, quest-grinding) is the root of all evil. But at its core, quest-grinding almost implies solo play. Now, before you go and say "But you can quest together!" How many people do guildleves together? How many people quested in WoW together? Rarely does it happen. To contrast, for monster-grinding, you pretty much have to party with others to gain exp at a reasonable rate. This is because to kill monsters that yield exp you need to fight things way higher than you (i.e., impossible to kill consistently by yourself).

There is the key. One incentivizes solo play while the other incentivizes party play. I prefer to play with others.

I think having quests is good, but I think they should serve a small role to advance the story or lore, not be a means of progression because you then spend most of your time running around, talking to npcs, and killing things solo. Why not just play a solo RPG?

So basically what you're saying is, you like to do things one way, so everyone else should be forced to do things the same way? Because you'll still be able to grind mobs in exp parties if you want, nobody will force you to do these quests. And why does it have to be one way or the other? Maybe some people like both solo and party content. Also playing solo in an MMO =/= solo RPG. There are many things in an MMO that you can't get from an offline RPG, like the social aspect (linkshells/free companies) and the economy. By your logic everyone who crafts and gathers exclusively should play offline crafting games.

They are comparable in this case. Skyrim had hundreds if not thousands of quests. All hand crafted by devs. It would take more than that number of quests to level 7+ combat classes and 12+ crafting/gathering classes to 50, even if the exp gain was 1 level per quest. And in order for those quests to not be boring they would also need to be hand crafted by devs, else we just may as well keep leves.

These quests might be leves for all we know, and even if they aren't, I honestly don't think we need trash quests for DoH/L, leves are fine for those. And I hope they aren't hand crafted so we can get more of them, considering that the quests in Skyrim were still pretty boring to me after a while.

[Skies]

I am at work so cannot write the 14-page manifesto of why I believe quest-driven leveling (aka, quest-grinding) is the root of all evil. But at its core, quest-grinding almost implies solo play. Now, before you go and say "But you can quest together!" How many people do guildleves together? How many people quested in WoW together? Rarely does it happen. To contrast, for monster-grinding, you pretty much have to party with others to gain exp at a reasonable rate. This is because to kill monsters that yield exp you need to fight things way higher than you (i.e., impossible to kill consistently by yourself).

There is the key. One incentivizes solo play while the other incentivizes party play. I prefer to play with others.

I think having quests is good, but I think they should serve a small role to advance the story or lore, not be a means of progression because you then spend most of your time running around, talking to npcs, and killing things solo. Why not just play a solo RPG?

What
Exactly
Prevent the quests from being geared towards being done with a group?

[Dawiichan]

What
Exactly
Prevent the quests from being geared towards being done with a group?

Blasphemy! If the people don't believe it, it can't be possible! /end sarcasm

People don't want to be forced to solo on quests, but refuse to party in dungeons. Hypocrites I say.

[shanvhere]

Quest leveling is what MMO is like now, no more from grinding.

[Gumbercules]

Okay, as a person who has played a couple of different MMOs, quest based leveling worked for them mainly because it was one storyline for the one class that you chose to level. However, we have an armory system, where you level multiple classes on one character and experience all the the story on the one character.

Anyone see the problem yet?

Lets say I'm a noob, just finished leveling my warrior 1-50 or where ever our new cap may end up being through quest. What if I decided to level Dragoon, would the quest restart on their own, or will I have used all my quest up for my second job.

I like questing to gain experience, but I'd just like some comments if this will be the case.

I believe they are keeping the leve system more or less, might be a little different but im guessing most of your xp will still come from leves. so maybe the quest hubs ill just have some main story quests and repeated quest you purchase with leves, so when you go through again you can still just pick up these quests again with leves.

[Rukkirii]

You guys have brought up some great points in this thread and I went ahead and asked Yoshida on what he thinks.

Here is his reply:

Don't worry, of course there will be content besides just quests, but please wait for future details in an upcoming announcement. By the way, just to be clear, it won't just be leves!

Now to wait for that announcement!

[Gidonoidon_Sur]

You guys have brought up some great points in this thread and I went ahead and asked Yoshida on what he thinks.

Here is his reply:



Now to wait for that announcement!

Still a little concerned. I just want to play with others and often questing results in a completely solo track to endgame. Hope that is not the case.

[Vindrax]

Still a little concerned. I just want to play with others and often questing results in a completely solo track to endgame. Hope that is not the case.

While I actually enjoy leveling in groups, I actually worry about the reverse. I find it frustrating when I hit a level where I'm eligible for a new skill and then have to find a group to help me go out and kill an NM because it's unsoloable for my level, yet they receive really no benefit for helping me other than a pat on the back and a "thanks for helping out".

While WoW had a lot of quests, these type of group quests you would pick up would still be an issue. In most instances they are completely unsoloable for the level they are acquired and when you're usually off doing questing on your own, it's rare that someone else is looking for that same specific quest you are (especially given the wide level range in WoW). I worry more about that here, because it seems that the questing system is going to be very story driven where you'll probably need to follow them in sequence. Usually in WoW I would just skip those group quests and do the other ones that were offered. But if I'm in a questing sequence, now my progression is blocked unless I can find someone else (or a group) on that specific quest, which is very unlikely, or I need to beg/ask someone to take time out of their schedule to come help me with it so I can progress.

I just hope the development team is thinking about this as they create this new questing system. I do love partying and would love to have some quest lines designed for groups around a specific level range. Where you complete a series of 3-5 quests over some period of time (chains of varying lenghts, 1-3 hours). I would like a system like that since all final fantasy's are about the journey of a group. But if the quest chains are mixing solo quests with group quests, I just know I'm going to find myself frustrated having to look for help every time I want to continue the story I started.

[Gidonoidon_Sur]

While I actually enjoy leveling in groups, I actually worry about the reverse. I find it frustrating when I hit a level where I'm eligible for a new skill and then have to find a group to help me go out and kill an NM because it's unsoloable for my level, yet they receive really no benefit for helping me other than a pat on the back and a "thanks for helping out".

While WoW had a lot of quests, these type of group quests you would pick up would still be an issue. In most instances they are completely unsoloable for the level they are acquired and when you're usually off doing questing on your own, it's rare that someone else is looking for that same specific quest you are (especially given the wide level range in WoW). I worry more about that here, because it seems that the questing system is going to be very story driven where you'll probably need to follow them in sequence. Usually in WoW I would just skip those group quests and do the other ones that were offered. But if I'm in a questing sequence, now my progression is blocked unless I can find someone else (or a group) on that specific quest, which is very unlikely, or I need to beg/ask someone to take time out of their schedule to come help me with it so I can progress.

I just hope the development team is thinking about this as they create this new questing system. I do love partying and would love to have some quest lines designed for groups around a specific level range. Where you complete a series of 3-5 quests over some period of time (chains of varying lenghts, 1-3 hours). I would like a system like that since all final fantasy's are about the journey of a group. But if the quest chains are mixing solo quests with group quests, I just know I'm going to find myself frustrated having to look for help every time I want to continue the story I started.

Sounds like guild leves will be soloable. So I hope quest lines do require parties since there will already be a solo route.

[Vindrax]

Sounds like guild leves will be soloable. So I hope quest lines do require parties since there will already be a solo route.

I wouldn't have an issue if all the main quest lines were meant for groups, I just don't want them to switch between "do this quest solo, then find a group, then do this one solo". If they're meant only for groups, then it's likely you'll stick with your group to finish the chain.

However, class quests that really only reward the player whose class quest it is, should be soloable, or should offer significant rewards for the players who are volunteering their time to help you complete it.