Please fix savage raiding

[Mrs_Venat]

I originally started savage back during the second tier of Alexander, and (aside from a short break during part of Omega) have cleared pretty much every tier since. After Pandemonium, I was honestly considering taking a break since it was... well, not great. But of course I had to do FRU, and I'm glad I did because M1S-M4S were some of the best raid content we've ever had. I don't think we've ever had such a good blend of fun fights with challenge before.

So naturally, I was excited for 7.2. But holy crap what a disappointment. This tier is the absolute worst we've ever had. M6S is the only saving grace in an otherwise dumpster fire of a tier. Like many statics this tier, mine (we've been together since mid-Eden), called it quits afterwards. It's just not worth the effort, if the fight designers aren't putting any effort in either.

Even the raid storyline fell flat, which was also disappointing after such a strong start in the first tier. But the main point is that the fights themselves are utterly unfun. I actually don't know anyone whose static stayed together after this tier. I keep hearing that the tier got praised, but everyone I personally know absolutely hated it. I can only imagine that the praise is coming from people who want to see the game fail.

PLEASE do not continue this kind of lazy fight design in the future. Look to M1S-M4S as the standard going forward. Those were truly the best we've ever had it. I'd love for a reason to re-sub soon, and continue to do savage in 7.4.

[Alice_Rivers]

I also hate everything about M5S and M7S, I love M6S - it's a great fight. I can't really review M8S since my own static hasn't made it to adds yet we've pretty much been stonewalled before the first stack.

[Valence]

You mention that the newest raid is the worst we've ever had, but don't seem to explain why you feel that way. May I ask why?

[ThurinTurambar]

Whats the difference between m5s and m1s?

The only problem i see with this tier is some weird snapshots and its misery in pf.

[Alice_Rivers]

The biggest difference for me between M1S and M5S is that M1S doesn't punish you for the mere act of playing RDM.

[ServerCollaps]

i think m5-m8s is one of the best tiers that we had so far, lots of fun to prog ^^

[ThurinTurambar]

The biggest difference for me between M1S and M5S is that M1S doesn't punish you for the mere act of playing RDM.

M3s punished you for playing reaper with those knockback towers being just fast enough to make harpe get interrrupted, i did not see people saying the fight was bad because 1 job had hard time on it.

[Carighan]

Okay I could not disagree harder.

* M5S to me is the peak fight of this tier. The soundtrack is amazing, the mechanics are super well themed, the voiceovers alone sell it, and the mechanics are also straightforward to follow while allowing lots of classes to actually use tools like teleports and shields and such.
* M6S nearly keeps up, having an even more awesome soundtrack and theming, and also a very unique middle phase that challenges AoE damage and on-demand burst, something other boss fights just do not do. It only loses to M5S because to me, as amazing as it is, the theme and voiceovers of M5S win out.
* M7S is ... okay. It's not superb, and it's a bit lame they recycle a boss, but it has really fun mechanics and it was surprising how tough the damage race was.
* M8S is the one sore spot for me. It's an aggressively bland fight, with neither theme, nor voiceovers, nor anything befitting his status as the capstone of the tier, that's ignoring how underdeveloped the character was as a whole and how utterly random the fight location is. What's more, phase 2 is an active insult to the playerbase, combining a lengthy cutscene, a lack of a checkpoint, an incredibly random almost leftover-style model from early development and the only saving grace is the raw speed of the mechanics which is fun.

M5S in particular is amazing though. Plus it's very pretty!

The biggest difference for me between M1S and M5S is that M1S doesn't punish you for the mere act of playing RDM.

"Halp, my class choice matters, this is what we players are always asking for but now that it affects me, obviously I hate it!"

[Alice_Rivers]

It perhaps doesn't help that I didn't choose to play RDM, I had to adjust for other people, but I still don't see that fights should be designed in a way that punishes players for playing certain jobs. I want job diversity but you don't get that by punishing people for playing the 'wrong' jobs, like MCH. Having helped people prog M5S as healer and as melee I probably wouldn't be so unhappy with it if I'd not played RDM, it didn't punish me for playing other of those roles, if I'd played as DNC I probably wouldn't be so opposed to it. It's just the fact that someone on the dev team went "lets put a forced ranged section into the two minute burst window" and nobody said "hey, how about we don't screw over RDM players?". They did the same thing in M7S P3, at least where they decided to inconvenience RDM in M6S we were able to work around that and it's actually a fun fight.

But hey, maybe it's just because I'm "not a savage player" doing my first on content savage tier, though if this is representative I will be not a savage player again in 8.0 (assuming I'm still here at all given how my interest in the game is going).

[AmiableApkallu]

"Halp, my class choice matters, this is what we players are always asking for but now that it affects me, obviously I hate it!"

If your choice of class (job) means that you're at a disadvantage in some situations, then there also needs to be situations where you're at an advantage. Otherwise, your "choice" is just plain bad and will feel as such.