Role Actions - Yay or Nay?

[Connor]

I realise this has been asked before but I wasn’t there so clearly it just didn’t happen.

Anyway now people have had plenty of time with the role actions I’m curious how they find them, whether their opinions on certain ones has changed, etc etc. Are they better for Frontlines or CC? Or maybe they don’t cater towards either?

The main thing I’ve noticed is that for the three roles I play (healer/magical/physical range)…it’s basically the same thing for all three. You have your one ‘practically useless’ ability, (Haelan, Rust, Dervish), one ‘marginally useful’ ability (Stoneskin II, Phantom Dart, Bravery), then one ‘absolute take this one right now or you’ll look like a smooth brain’ (Comet, Diabrosis, Eagle Eye Shot). Why even give us a choice if it’s not going to be a real choice? Were they to just delete everything except the ‘obvious’ takes and would anything actually change? Maybe I’m underestimating the less popular choices, idk.

[Mawlzy]

I think that's right. In FL at least, it basically gives each job an extra button, and you'll nearly always make the same pick. The extra button is nice, but there's scope for improvement.

Maybe those queuing as a light party have a more nuanced approach, but I think most of us just pick the "good" button.

One suggestion I'd make is to be able to switch the role action outside of the respawn point. I can imagine situations in which switching role action to deal with the current dynamic would be fun and add skill expression.

[Atreus]

They're fine. More buttons is a good thing. I think right now some are wildly better picks than others so that ought to be looked at. You're right, it's the illusion of choice when meta exists but as Jessa said, there's a bit more nuance when it's more organized. So that being said, I think tuned down versions could definitely be introduced to CC.

[ThreeBeastSmile]

One suggestion I'd make is to be able to switch the role action outside of the respawn point. I can imagine situations in which switching role action to deal with the current dynamic would be fun and add skill expression.

Hopefully you mean with an Occult Crescent-like cycling duty action wheel, because I'm sure as hell not bringing up a menu like the one right now in the action zone. They'd also have to share recast timers so you can't just keep hot-swapping; some of those role actions are not so naff if they were able to be paired together. Putting it lightly. You see what they can do when they're coordinated amongst a group.

Tbh some of the role groups just have worse design. Among the melee there are times where I consider all three, even if I do inevitably have my favourite go-tos. However my go-to does vary from what I have seen on enemies/allies, so yeah, some roles just have it better. Some meaningful customization in combat-related matters would be nice in the game in its entirety even if yadda yadda "illusion of choice" or something.

[Mawlzy]

Hopefully you mean with an Occult Crescent-like cycling duty action wheel, because I'm sure as hell not bringing up a menu like the one right now in the action zone. They'd also have to share recast timers so you can't just keep hot-swapping; some of those role actions are not so naff if they were able to be paired together. Putting it lightly. You see what they can do when they're coordinated amongst a group.

Tbh some of the role groups just have worse design. Among the melee there are times where I consider all three, even if I do inevitably have my favourite go-tos. However my go-to does vary from what I have seen on enemies/allies, so yeah, some roles just have it better. Some meaningful customization in combat-related matters would be nice in the game in its entirety even if yadda yadda "illusion of choice" or something.

Yeah, they could stick em on a wheel, and they would of course be on the same CD.

[ChrysOCE]

I realise this has been asked before but I wasn’t there so clearly it just didn’t happen.

Anyway now people have had plenty of time with the role actions I’m curious how they find them, whether their opinions on certain ones has changed, etc etc. Are they better for Frontlines or CC? Or maybe they don’t cater towards either?

The main thing I’ve noticed is that for the three roles I play (healer/magical/physical range)…it’s basically the same thing for all three. You have your one ‘practically useless’ ability, (Haelan, Rust, Dervish), one ‘marginally useful’ ability (Stoneskin II, Phantom Dart, Bravery), then one ‘absolute take this one right now or you’ll look like a smooth brain’ (Comet, Diabrosis, Eagle Eye Shot). Why even give us a choice if it’s not going to be a real choice? Were they to just delete everything except the ‘obvious’ takes and would anything actually change? Maybe I’m underestimating the less popular choices, idk.

uhhh I think you have Comet and Rust around the wrong way. I'll take a reduction in healing and damage dealt, to a group of players, over the flashy, but ultimately practically useless Comet, any day. Sure, if you get 4 or 5 going off at once, maybe. Usually its only one, which you can pretty much ignore most of the time.
And Phantom Dart marginally useful? I would put Phantom Dart into absolute take this one, for Red Mage, just for single targeting.

[Valence]

In terms of power

Rampart: yay (broken... 50% mit for 20? On tanks? Please)
Rampage: yay (absolutely meta to counter the innate DR of jobs in FL and buff AoE stacking)
Full Swing: meme but I actually like it because it's fun and harmless

Diabrosis: yay (meta, very strong)
Healan: nay, if you need healing you're already dead in FL, and you already have a few instants on most healers, past that point it means the target is getting steamrolled, it's just there to shut people angry they can't just spend 100% of their time healing
Stoneskin II: idk, sounds niche, barriers go away pretty fast in FL from all the random cleaves

Comet: yay (who would have thought stacking AoE in FL would work out?)
Dart: nay, was insanely strong in feast, but in a mode like FL?... Too weak/inconsequential
Rust: nay, it would be crazy good like Diabrosis if it wasn't 5y radius, which is ridiculously small and you won't hit many people with it, which is a shame because it would be a good counter to rampage otherwise (although the real issue is that most people wouldn't use it at the right time anyway, it's way harder to defend than to attack)

Smite: heard it's meta, I find it overrated, but yay I guess? It's good though, definitely, mostly due to the short recast
Bloodbath: yay, it's super good with certain jobs, and I like that it works well with some jobs and less with some others, it builds on flavor
Swift: yay, underrated af, it's crazy good value especially on samurai that can't just tp away

Eagle eye: yay, the smite of rphys I guess?
Bravery: yay, crazy strong but mostly on MCH
Dervish: most useless crap ever

In terms of design

Rampart: big nay, tanks don't need this, this is there as training wheels for casual players to go melee, but it's completely broken at higher skill levels.
Rampage: big nay, it breaks the game mode in the hands of coordinated groups.
Full Swing: big yay, golf clubbing is actually fun, although the ability feels a bit janky especially with the game's awful netcode.

Diabrosis: yay, reducing self healing is pretty great to have an impact on the game without breaking the mode.
Healan: mid, I think it's good for people that want to heal more, but perhaps it could benefit from being AoE.
Stoneskin II: mid, same here, perhaps it lacks power.

Comet: nay, this feeds into AoE stacking and harms the mode, the only fun thing with this is actually aiming a good one.
Dart: cautious yay, I think it could have value vs valuable targets but you need people actually following on it.
Rust: cautious yay, if it had bigger radius to counter AoE stacking, but I feel that it could have the opposite effect to rampage, which is breaking the mode by making everybody unkillable.

Smite: yay, it's an assassinate, it works.
Bloodbath: yay, it's a great survival tool that's attached to damage so it rewards some skill play unlike rampart.
Swift: yay, feels great to use, is a way better design to help people go melee without getting destroyed as well. Too bad it's the tanks that do need it, and not melee DPS.

Eagle eye: yay?
Bravery: yay, it helps rphys, notably on survivability.
Dervish: nay, let's be honest even if it was a free sprint, it would still be subpar.

Opinion

Overall that's not a bad direction but the balance is awful, and some were clearly added without any consideration for what's healthy for the mode (but apparently people don't care so it's fine I guess).

[VictorSpoils]

Haelan is a weird outlier...single-target, hardcast, and consumes your own MP...wouldn't even be useful in CC. Also agree with Stoneskin; if you don't save someone with it, there's no point

Comet looks like a noob trap (and I mean the user) but I'm biased because I didn't use casters and the other two actions do seem weak

Overall, the DoM actions are disproportionately worse.

[Alyko]

The three actions are situational for different game modes and playstyles. I think they did a good job making each action cover a different use case.

For example, Phantom Dart is an absolute godsend in Rival Wings. If you need a giant robot dead as soon as possible, the extra 25% damage taken helps make that happen.

Same deal with Bravery, you can quite literally oneshot people on MCH on RW given enough Soaring stacks. You can also Bravery tanks making pulls that massively boosts their survivability.

[Atreus]

Haelan is a weird outlier...single-target, hardcast, and consumes your own MP...wouldn't even be useful in CC.

Hard disagree. It'd be broken being able to funnel four extra heals into a target and being able to just pot up for more.