New gearsets preview is a disappointment

[ColdIronCoyote]

It's been over 10 years since the ARR relaunch and easily like 20 "OMG this gear is so offensive!" If this is the "final straw of disappointment" I don't know why you were still here to begin with.

Next up? We still got Mercydia which is some kinda mash up of Egyptian and Australian influences. So get prepared for more "final straw" outrages from there.

[SaltyDaddy]

Some people should really stop spending so much time on twitter and go outside. FF is not your real life, or the representation of it.

[eikomakimachi]

I think lots of people already pointed out why they are disappointed and the issues about the 7.3 gear set's designs, but I would like to add here my 2 cents:

Please get sensitivity readers, a consultant about history, or even diversify the design team or share possible future designs with people that work in SQEX from other countries (SQEX does have Latam representatives, as far as I know). This is not the first time you seem to fail to do proper research on a certain country's history or people's culture before designing gear for this game and while I believe you don't do this with ill intent this kind of situation could have been avoided with research or with someone with different background and views to point out how problematic certain designs can be. I'm afraid this kind of situation will happen again if this issue is not addressed.

[E2404]

Echoing a lot of the disappointed sentiments expressed here.
I went into this expansion with tentative hopes that the representation and real world cultural inspiration behind so much of it would be thoughtfully implemented as per the dev team's promises (and in the first half of Dawntrail I personally still feel that a lot of it was).
I joined other POC, Native and Latin American folks in their excitement at seeing so many elements of Dawntrail that made them feel like their cultures were sincerely being shown for the first time in ages (if ever), so to then see a new armour set released that is directly inspired by the very people who colonised, enslaved and actively tried to destroy those same cultures feels incredibly careless at best and insulting at worst given the expansion this is — especially after the promises and assurances related to having cultural consultants that were made.
It's not the first time this kind of thing has happened, but it's definitely a very egregious instance of it and they need to do better...

[Chasingstars]

What it says on the tin, but I'm putting it mildly. Just saw the gear preview from Meso Terminal and you'd think after everything that went down with the War Bonnet Fiasco in Stormblood, the Sami "northern" set on the Mogstation, and all the feedback from Thavnair we wouldn't be here, and yet five out of the seven sets of armor are conquistador themed? In the South American themed expac? Are they kidding us right now?

Like if it had been more Alexandrian or Lindblum themed based on the designs from FF9 I'd be less irritated, because it's one of my favorites in the series, but this absolutely isn't it. I know a conquistador and a musketeer when I see them.

It doesn't take much to not be racist with armor designs, why are we still having this problem in the year of our lord 2025???

Since you decided to add the whole war bonnet thing into this discussion and we are going to do this song and dance again. I decided to revisit the ghosts of the past, some light thread necromancy, that thread about the war bonnet. I feel the replies there are relevant here as they come various users from back then. Just reinterpret anything about native americans and war bonnets as something about the spanish and conquistadors.

While kept anonymous, they are from 2016:

Cultural appropriation exists because people fail to comprehend that culture belongs to noone.

Stop being so overly sensitive. If you don't like it, tough. You're one person in a game that is played by millions, they're not going to change it just because you find it offensive.

When I responded with what I said earlier, about other clothing being in the game, I was more in the sense asking "Why are you against x culture's traditional clothes being used but have nothing to say about y culture?", you can't just be fine with one being used and the other entirely, wholly ignored. It's not right, and it should never be something.

Ah yes, lets take away the ability for Native Americans to dress up as Native Americans, because it offends me as non-Native American.

As a Native American I can say that I don't find this offensive & am actually looking forward to wearing the female version of the outfit.
We have outfits inspired by all sorts of cultures, why can't we have clothing inspired by Native American culture?
(which tbh back when people were asking for outfits from other regions similar to the Chinese & Korean outfits I was worried the NA side was gonna get some stupid red, white & blue themed stuff. So this is a pleasant surprise xD)

At the end of the day this is just a game, and the devs are not putting the outfit in the game in a mocking way, so why take offense?

Whatever happened to simply not using something if it is 'offensive'? Censorship should only be resorted to in the most dire of cases - especially since it stifles creativity and creative freedom. There is an immense amount of gear, architecture and lore inspired by various real world cultures throughout FFXIV. As well as in various other mainstream MMO's. I will be very disappointed if this thread ends getting the gear in question removed from the game since it will set a dangerous precedent of the developers bowing to the vocal minority who kick up a fuss over 'social justice' issues.

I'm Asian (part Japanese) and I don't get upset that people go around wearing yukata and dressing as miko (shrine maidens) even though that was a fairly sacred role. The thing is, I understand that the clothing mimics our "real world" cultures, but the characters wearing them are not American/British/Japanese/Native American -- they are Eorzeans. FF15 takes place in a make believe world, and while cultural appropriation is a real and damaging thing in real life, FF15 is not real life. I often wonder if the people being upset about things like this are even part of the culture they are so defensive about (I know you don't have to be Native American to support their culture, but then I have to wonder if such are just misplaced SJWs).

The Japanese made this as an imaginary costume for an imaginary game and based it on a real cultural item - as someone said earlier, cultural appropriation is taken much more lightly in Japan than the US (just look at some anime that poke fun at various cultures). I kind of wish we in the US could also take that sort of relaxed attitude instead of always being offended.

Your entire argument falls apart when the object in question is not in actuallity a "Native American War Bonnet" it may look like one, but it is not one. Therefor the cultural impact and damage is only perceived by you in your limited perspective.

In FFXIV it is a collection of feathers, perhaps a tribal head-dress of some tribe that is assuredly not of Native American descent.

What next no pants because someone made them first?

Tell ya what, if you can find a whole bunch of Native Americans who are deeply offended by the idea of a Japanese game developer using those headdresses in a video game, then you might have a case...

Otherwise it's pretty much one of those "Someone somewhere at some point in time might possibly have a chance of being slightly upset" situations.

These aren't "people" wearing war bonnets. These are animated 3d models. Bam.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

The beliefs and customs behind the headdress are of absolutely no concern to me whatsoever, if I think the headdress looks cool I'm going to wear it.

And that's not even touching the other issue of representation. OP's husband also said on tumblr that he "side-eyed" the afro when it was added in game. If we can only add in features, clothing, and items related to white people and western/European cultures because anything else is "appropriation" or "racism," we end up with a white-washed setting that will surely earn much more just complaints of racism. PoC and minorities need respectful representation. If they find this offensive on their own, that's one thing, but we don't need OP trying to speak for them and even worse--call them racist if they don't believe something representing their own culture being put into the game is "appropriation."

We'd end up with pretty much nothing, because you can make these appropriation bullshit arguments on just about everything, because people in different parts of the world independently of each other had the same ideas, and they seem to run on the idea that because someone else also thought of it nobody should be allowed to have it.

So what about Halloween or Carnaval (in Europe), when kids dress up as Cowboys and Indians, with cowboy hat and pistols and indian war bonnets? That ain't offensive?
Please, just because you feel offended doesn't mean you're right or entitled to anything.
Is this meant to offend? Is SE taking the piss of native americans and that's why they are releasing this bonnet? No? Then why are you offended? Are we supposed to ban things so you don't get offended? What if they created this to show respect to the people? What if they created it for no reason? Just by showing or wearing something doesn't mean it's done with the purpose of offending you know.
I'm offended that you are offended!

Just stating a point here... This game is a FANTASY game. In a FANTASY world. Where FANTASY can be lived out. I mean for the Twelve's sake, it is literally in the name of the game. The logic behind getting knots twisted up over fantasy is like offering to braid a bald guys hair.

Im sure Native americans can speak for themselves if something offends them. They don't need someone from F knows where speaking on their behalf in an attempt to bring social justice or whatever crap they were thinking.

If the OP was a Native American then his complaint would be somewhat legitimate. But apparently he is not.

If i was a Native American reading this thread right now i would feel insulted to see someone implying we couldn't speak for ourselves.

OP might have missed that this is a video game and stuff like this has been put into games before many times.
It may aswell just be considered Ixal tribe-like clothing so get over it seriously.

Seriously, this is instigating at its best. Its like me walking up to a stranger and saying my friend doesn't like his clothes and he should change them or else and my friend doesn't even know what's going on. I'm not only putting words in my friends mouth, but I'm also trying to start a fight between him and this random guy. The op should be banned for even trying to incite something that isn't even there and has no actual knowledge of, since he thinks only Native Americans are the only ones with a culture of wearing war bonnets.

I'm going to say people should be able to wear whatever they want, irl or in game. You can't claim ownership over a particular style and restrict who gets to wear it. Maybe a different tribe independently designs similar headgear somewhere else in the world and it has a different meaning to them.

What if I start a religion with round green hats which have purple stars on them, and I start telling people it is offensive for them for wear hats of this style unless they are members of this religion and have passed a test. Doesn't it sound silly?

If there was a tribe of Native Americans in the game, that you was sent on a quest to butcher for another faction, to acquire land and such, that would reward you with the chief's headdress... then yeah, this might be a severe case of get it out now.

But it isn't... it's an innocent, non-offensive and no-ill-will outfit for people of any race, creed and nationality to wear, for fun. Not to state they are a deserving, warranted heroic veteran of many a battle and deed, or to use as a racist or insensitive gesture. It's the equivalent of little kids wearing cowboy and indian outfits to play, sure, it ain't ultra sensitive toward what happened but it doesn't need to be, it's innocent and has no malevolent meaning.

The costume is not used to mock or offend, so this is just another case of someone being offended because he or she simply chose to be offended.

This is just like the time the Boston Museum of Fine Arts came under fire for letting non Asians wear Kimono as part of one of their exhibits. The people least offended by the whole thing? Actual Japanese people. They were happy to share their culture.

Though if we're gonna share family sob stories, all of my ancestors were the "undesirable" europeans (Irish, Polish) who migrated to the US for a better life at the turn of the century. My great-grandparents hardly spoke English. They survived a lot of hardship. But you know what? If I had a cow over every time I saw someone wearing a tacky "kiss me I'm Irish" shirt drinking green beer on St. Patrick's Day I'd get nothing done.

If you wanted to complain about Native American culture being appropriated in this game you should've done it when the Vanu were introduced along with the Haka dance. You're late to the game and now y'all just look like the sum total of your knowledge is that you saw an injun on a stamp once.

And yes I know it's Maori, but you're not seriously going to try to argue that one indigenous tribe is somehow better than another.

Exactly, and even before the Vanu, the Ixal are basically the Aztecs.

I fail to see the problem of adding a piece of clothing, often used in historical/fictional depictions of 1 culture, while we have multiple pieces of clothing, often used in historical/fictional depictions of other cultures. If you don't like it, don't use it. Besides, are you (OP) of Native American descend? If not why complain about it at all, let alone 2-dimensional art assets slapped over a bundle of polygons. It wasn't stolen from a grave site, from someone's family belongings, and no birds were harmed in the making of it.

I'm pagan, and yet people continue to slay my gods in video games. Does it bother me? Sometimes yes, but people do have the right to be creative in a fantasy setting. That's why it's called fantasy. You can explore an entire world, and do whatever you want. It's purely imagination, maybe someone on the team admires native dress.

3.3 brought us cowboys (right), 3.4 will give us native american gear. We got tuxedos, butler- and maid-attire, sailor-gear, arabic-styled gear, kimonos and much more already.

I wonder when we get some Lederhosen and Dirndls (Germoney approves) xD

With this outlook they may as well not put in any form of cultural anything cause it's gonna offend someone anyway, happens every time, This is a game guys, there are worse things that can happen lol

This game implements bosses based on major religious and cultural figures and then let us slaughter them repeatedly. As long as the game isn't doing something with the clothing in a way that could be seen as degrading there shouldn't be any issue.

Honestly, I just hope it's all dyeable.

I love that outfit

No one complained about the thrav set, No one complained about the Sohr Khai/hullbreaker gear, No one complained about any chinese themed gear, heck people asked for it, now suddenly this is a problem? Yet none of those were?

Several people in my family are Native Americans and none of them have issues with this.

This whole appropriation thing makes no sense... Did they appropriate Shinto customs by having the traditional garb included in game? How bout cowboy culture? Persians? What about European culture with coats of arms and knights and nobility? Why is one hat more important than the rest of those?

[LeithValkyrian]

What's with all the <5 post accounts jumping on this thread? Smells highly supsect.

Wow it's almost like repeatedly poor decisions tend to make people more vocal on the medium that the devs actually read and interact with.

[decomposer]

People saying "how do people have time for this." On this forum. You do realize that are also posting on a forum in the middle of what is currently a work-day for half of the globe, right. Just to be clear. You took the same amount of time as those so-called unemployed to voice your own opinion.

[BigCheez]

Wow it's almost like repeatedly poor decisions tend to make people more vocal on the medium that the devs actually read and interact with.

Right, and I suppose everyone just happened to show up to voice their collective disappointment about the set that doesn't even look to be remotely inspired by Spanish conquistadors at the same time.

Smells suspiciously like someone with too much time on their hands posting rage bait on social media and sending their goblins with pitchforks out to the forums.

[musapichi]

There are very few instances that have made me disappointed enough to actually come to the forums to comment, as with most mmorpgs these kinds of tone-deaf designs are expected and cater to the majority of the playerbase and what will grant them money and the majority of the playerbase is, in this instance, rather obvious, given the amounts of "gEt OvEr It" arguments I am seeing in response to reasonable concerns about the outfits.
What is disappointing is being strung along on the false hope of the first half of an expansion where, for a moment, I was led to believe that for the first time I would see my homeland represented not just 'accurately' but with care. The care it deserves. No longer faceless, noble savages, but people with beautiful graphical designs and cool lore and a colorful world. Not just that, but this was a colorful world without the horrors of colonization, a world where, for once, fantasy and magic was allowed to not center around the European storytelling, as it so often is. And then, you know, this happens.

Now, I feel it important to note something that the ""arguments"" here by other latinos here in this thread are missing, and it is that I am, myself, an indigenous person. It does not matter if you are from X, Y, Z, and you are okay with these outfits, when you have no connection to your indigenous ancestry. Latam is not a monolith. There is a common idea in Latam that we are all of this ancestry and thus all have the same claim to these types of discussions; but this is precisely the kind of ideology that colonization brought, and intentionally, so that we could forget our roots. How many of you claiming these are harmless can trace your roots? How many of you downplaying the upset actually care about your indigenous ancestry? Have you cared about it aside from using it to weaponize it against arguments online? Would your people claim you?

I can't say I expected better out of Squenix, but I can say that perhaps I expected better out of my countrymen. I hope at the very least our concerns are addressed. I don't know what has happened to these "sensitivity readers" but I believe we need more of them.

[Khalithar]

Since you decided to add the whole war bonnet thing

The fact people are still on about that is wild. Even this non-troversy will blow over despite the cringe being displayed by the detractors in this thread.