Can Devs reconsider body checks in large raids seriously?

[Jeeqbit]

But I'll not pretend that raiding was that much different back then. It was, and it wasn't, perhaps somewhere in the middle

It's true that sometimes even things like vulns felt like a body check with certain healers, and it's certainly not the best implementation of group dynamics and the holy trinity in an MMORPG, but it was at least better than what we have now for the reason that people get bored doing content far more than in the past due to it being so reliant on just the mechanics, rather than how we all affect eachother.

[Valence]

I mean the better fix is just bin the rez limit ( or make the limit apply per pull), and just allow everyone to release at the start of the instance, and only de-level if the instance fails.

It would actually help accomplish the intended goals the devs had, and make a bad pull significantly less infuriating.

But yeah not a single developer actually thought about this for more than 10 seconds.

They're still stuck in their savage/ultimate model where everything is about absolute consistency at the party level, therefore everything must behave the exact same because they can't even imagine how to do differently anymore. And because to be perfectly honest with them, they don't have a lot of other tools left to generate difficulty those days so it's convenient for them.

[Hyperia]

They're still stuck in their savage/ultimate model where everything is about absolute consistency at the party level, therefore everything must behave the exact same because they can't even imagine how to do differently anymore. And because to be perfectly honest with them, they don't have a lot of other tools left to generate difficulty those days so it's convenient for them.

I believe that they are confusing hard with fun. As long as the content is fun, it does not have to be hard, just challenging. The hardcore players will make it hard on themselves by trying to get a great parse. Deaths and damage down debuffs won’t bother casuals but it will bother the parsers. The devs can also add skip challenges that if they do perfect mechanics and fantastic dps, they could skip mechanics or events that take a lot of time. They could even allow for cutscene skipping if dps is high enough and nobody has any debuff or deaths.

If the music is great, the action is good and the mechanics are fun, raiders will do it. Farming can be rewarding if it’s not to hard, helping new players can be fun too if it’s not painful to bring them along.

[Raikai]

A big problem up to 7.3 is being too catered to hardcore players - a big part is due to body checks. Body check punishes EVERYONE for someone else's mistakes, it's good for ultimate and savage, but

Look at chaotic alliance - 1 or 2 fails will wipe 24 players. It makes people very toxic - most toxic I've seen in my 6 years of play

Look at forked tower, supposedly midcore - misplacement can wipe the entire 48 people - it's not fun

The opposite (good) examples are bozja castrum, dalriada, delubrum, BA (excluding ozma). You fail a mechanic, you can die yourself and learn from it. Team won't get punished. It's fun.

This is what a midcore/casual content should be like. Yes, people can get carried, but what's the problem with that.

I think SE might be putting hardcore devs to design casual content. It's resulting in the mess in recent contents.

Please remove/reduce body checks in future midcore/casual contents, especially large raids. This will bring some hope back.

You know what would be cool, to encourage getting better at any kind of content?

Weekly challenge logs for specific encounters at the level cap, for example: "Do Forked Tower once without getting any Vulnerability stacks" or "Do 3 expert roulette dungeons without getting hit by avoidable telegraphs", etc. And give good rewards for completion.

[Veritas-Ancora]

I feel like the devs are spending too much time listening to the hardcore, Savage, and Ultimate players.

They've forgotten how fun a game can be when a few people die and there's still time to rez those players to get back up and win a long and complicated fight.

[Alice_Rivers]

I feel like the devs are spending too much time listening to the hardcore, Savage, and Ultimate players.

As a new savage player, I want room for mistakes, I want healers to have a job that isn't just being a worse dps.

[MarniDawg]

I have to agree especially with forked tower. Without the body check this feels like it was made for more of the player base even with the res restriction. In my opinion it's what had led to this content being considered for more hardcore players and the general toxicity and divide surrounding it.

[Sunhwapark]

hardcore, Savage, and Ultimate players.

Tbh I don't think those categories of players want 24/7 bodychecks either.

[Absurdity]

Tbh I don't think those categories of players want 24/7 bodychecks either.

The reliance on nothing but static mechanics that require precise execution and the body checks associated with them is why I couldn't even be bothered to do savage anymore this tier.

Is it difficult? Depending on how good or bad your ability to memorize movement patterns is, sure.
But it's often difficult in the most frustrating way.

You can end up spending hours or even days making zero progress because a single player being bad at memorizing a particular movement pattern will get you hard stuck on the same mechanic over and over.
And even if you yourself have no issue with the mechanic, if it goes on long enough you will start to mess up as well.
When you're at like 30+ pulls on the same mechanic, doing the same pattern leading up to it, the exact same ability and the exact same movement at the exact same time, you will be bored out of your mind, zone out and probably cause a wipe yourself, because at that point you're just doing mechanics on auto pilot and the job gameplay sure as hell can't keep anyone engaged.


This is also why I think this "modern" fight design has a much shorter shelf life.
When your job is always the exact same sequence of button presses and the mechanics are always the exact same sequence of movement, all while still requiring not a single slip up, it doesn't take long until you'd rather do anything else than repeat the fight.