Can Devs reconsider body checks in large raids seriously?

[Supersnow845]

He’s got to understand though that this is meaningless for the customer right?

Like it’s literally less than meaningless to us that he also gets frustrated that the team can’t seem to meet the design directive. It honestly makes it worse that they fail the design directive with their limited money and then tell us they don’t have enough money to fix the content to make it what was actually the original design directive

Like if you are so annoyed at the lack of money why do you keep letting the team make these kinds of mistakes that both waste money and don’t make the customer happy

[Alahard]

I just find it funny that after the Endwalker raids , and how the last tier was known as body check hell, that the 8 man dev team learned that maybe it wasn't a good idea and tried to do something about it.

And then on the 24-48 man content they were like -> lets do body checks and insta wipe mechanics. Surely the player base will like it more then there are 3-6x more failure points for these mechanics right guys????

And right after an expansion where the casual playerbase looked around wondering why all the new content ( outside deep dungeon, so one thing) wasn't for them. Lets make sure all the new content is on the harder side, right guys?????

[Mawlzy]

He’s got to understand though that this is meaningless for the customer right?

Like it’s literally less than meaningless to us that he also gets frustrated that the team can’t seem to meet the design directive. It honestly makes it worse that they fail the design directive with their limited money and then tell us they don’t have enough money to fix the content to make it what was actually the original design directive

Like if you are so annoyed at the lack of money why do you keep letting the team make these kinds of mistakes that both waste money and don’t make the customer happy

It's meaningless in the sense that the director being frustrated by the team he allegedly directs isn't our damn problem.

It's meaningful in the sense that, as customers, we expect the product to be released to conform to the design directive, and the fact this keeps not happening is incompetence that negatively impacts us.

[Valence]

My solution to body checks would be for them to require 80% of the raid or so. Make sure most people are still standing, but give some leeway.

Or just going back to a sustain based approach based on scarcity and threat levels. ARR and HW excelled at this. The more failures, the more vulns, the more boss buffs, the more MP strain on the party as well, until it snowballs into something that's not recoverable. The ratio of various content that failed not because people bodychecked out but actually because the party couldn't be healed and raised properly was sky high in comparison to today.

But I'll not pretend that raiding was that much different back then. It was, and it wasn't, perhaps somewhere in the middle since it was a lot stricter in terms of what the mechanical solutions were for the party not to just arbitrarily wipe. I do feel that the devs have to resort to this in harder content in comparison is precisely because their sustain considerations and threat level are just afterthoughts in their pve.

[Valence]

Yoshi-P made it clear recently at the Anime Expo that the main thing he is working on is FF14. There is a difference between being a producer and a director. When his studio makes other games, he is not necessarily the director (person who does the day-to-day management and vision of it), but rather just the producer and supervisor that checks in and makes sure they have everything they need and gives advice. This is fairly obvious because you can't really direct lots of things at once. Even FF16 had a different director that oversaw the day-to-day development.

I think in most players' minds they have a hard time defining what a producer does and what a director does. To make it simple, a game producer is NOT a dev by trade, while a creative director is one, much like an art director is another.

Producers are product owners and other employees in charge of planning that act as the bridge between a dev team and the publisher. They do follow projects and make sure to transmit schedule directives in regard to budget and other higher ups decisions. They generally do not have backgrounds and training for video game development even though some do because they started there (and from experience I've always found producers without any game dev background to be absolute pains to deal with because they understand nothing and just gloss over the realities of the job with vacant eyes).

Creative directors are game designers essentially, but in a position where they're the head honcho for the game's vision. They tend to manage one or multiple dev teams. They are generally not trained into commercial publishing, planning, resource allocation and management (and some would benefit from management skills, which often otherwise leads to absolute disasters of games that waste all their steam into vain or useless efforts in all directions).

The very fact that Yoshida does the two jobs at once is crazy to me. And that he actually worked on two projects on top of that, is absolutely nuts. I don't understand how they think this isn't harming the games they work on, because he's only one man, whether or not he has all the skills required.

[Oizen]

Endwalker fight design has been an absolute travesty for this game.

[Alice_Rivers]

The very fact that Yoshida does the two jobs at once is crazy to me. And that he actually worked on two projects on top of that, is absolutely nuts. I don't understand how they think this isn't harming the games they work on, because he's only one man, whether or not he has all the skills required.

One might wonder if merging the two roles is actually a good idea, or at least make the producer role an advisory/assisting one, a creative director as you say is going to have a much better picture of the state and needs of a game than the producer and is thus better positioned to advise head office as regards the game's resource requirements. As far as having one person serve the same role(s) for multiple games, it probably isn't ideal but I would imagine it probably scales reasonably well, particularly if they have a good supporting/senior staff. But if, as has been speculated, Yoshi is taking a more hands-off approach to his directing role then the senior staff would appear to be the problem which would seem odd unless they were changed out after EW since we'd think they were well versed in making good FF14 stuff.

[Rizlee]

one easy way to fix forked tower difficulty is to have auto-revive for the 3 charges, where u automatically revive when u die (dont need a healer or chemist raise/resurrect u) and consume a charge each time u resurrect, once u hit 0 charges u dont resurrect anymore, this prevents the full group wipe and the need for certain individuals to sack before a hard mechanic like Boss 2 snowball or fireball towers, the main thing that is an issue for proggers is this exact requirement of sacking someone which is just miserable if u r the person being sacked, and also puts pressure on the healers and chemists to time the resurrect right over doing the boss mechanic

my personal thoughts as to why this content is such a mess is most likely due to the content being made by newer devs or by a smaller team in a rush, its not well thought out and has many poor design, just think for a sec why does berserker have only 2 buttons while oracle or thief has 5 buttons, its just dumb, also the phantom freelancer was supposed to be something which u can customize by selecting specific skills from other ph. jobs, but its just a treasure coffer detector job, most mobs in the zone offers nothing but a few gold, they have nothing interesting, there are many flaws like that where they could have made more interesting things

[Alahard]

one easy way to fix forked tower difficulty is to have auto-revive for the 3 charges, where u automatically revive when u die (dont need a healer or chemist raise/resurrect u) and consume a charge each time u resurrect, once u hit 0 charges u dont resurrect anymore, this prevents the full group wipe and the need for certain individuals to sack before a hard mechanic like Boss 2 snowball or fireball towers, the main thing that is an issue for proggers is this exact requirement of sacking someone which is just miserable if u r the person being sacked, and also puts pressure on the healers and chemists to time the resurrect right over doing the boss mechanic

my personal thoughts as to why this content is such a mess is most likely due to the content being made by newer devs or by a smaller team in a rush, its not well thought out and has many poor design, just think for a sec why does berserker have only 2 buttons while oracle or thief has 5 buttons, its just dumb, also the phantom freelancer was supposed to be something which u can customize by selecting specific skills from other ph. jobs, but its just a treasure coffer detector job, most mobs in the zone offers nothing but a few gold, they have nothing interesting, there are many flaws like that where they could have made more interesting things

I mean the better fix is just bin the rez limit ( or make the limit apply per pull), and just allow everyone to release at the start of the instance, and only de-level if the instance fails.

It would actually help accomplish the intended goals the devs had, and make a bad pull significantly less infuriating.

But yeah not a single developer actually thought about this for more than 10 seconds.

[Themarvin]

A big problem up to 7.3 is being too catered to hardcore players - a big part is due to body checks. Body check punishes EVERYONE for someone else's mistakes, it's good for ultimate and savage, but

Look at chaotic alliance - 1 or 2 fails will wipe 24 players. It makes people very toxic - most toxic I've seen in my 6 years of play

Look at forked tower, supposedly midcore - misplacement can wipe the entire 48 people - it's not fun

The opposite (good) examples are bozja castrum, dalriada, delubrum, BA (excluding ozma). You fail a mechanic, you can die yourself and learn from it. Team won't get punished. It's fun.

This is what a midcore/casual content should be like. Yes, people can get carried, but what's the problem with that.

I think SE might be putting hardcore devs to design casual content. It's resulting in the mess in recent contents.

Please remove/reduce body checks in future midcore/casual contents, especially large raids. This will bring some hope back.

It is what I have been heading at, the content should not be like so a few feel like they got the rights to bash on someone who makes a mistake and likewise a design that should make the instance doable as well even with too many deaths due to it is supposed to be a community raid in a figure of speech, it is greatly overlooked, that means the content can still be difficult but a few skilled players can carry or help the lesser ones getting through, and not having the threat over the head if two or seven in the group keeps on failing the entire thing messes it up for all.

Yoshi P. and the Rest of the Dev Team have been listening too much to content creators and the most vocal part of the community, the ones that only want too messed up difficult stuff and forgot to look into the 97% of the people that just want to have a good time even if tough and with mess ups and more, but not being punished so hard.

And finally the way to enter the system, it should had been like Bozja and co. and that you don't need ti employ a full team either with people just queuing or signing up for it but entering one of them ciphers... and the weather change should count all instances and be able to take people from each individual instance, port them to the new zone and start the game.... IF anything that is, so the zone is not kept hostage, and multiple random groups as well as those in group together get tossed into the instance.

If you want to add requirements do it in the shape that you must have 3 different types Phantom Jobs unlocked and be at least level 20 or something down those lines.