How would you *fix* battle content?

[Supersnow845]

A

No one has 4 benedictions on a 25 second cooldown you are absoutley making stuff up. Even then its only in adds in dungeons and the healers should be using aoe instead of cure boting anyway.

The tank with the most self heals is WAR and its designed that way because they have the worst invuln in the game that they WILL die from if the healer isnt on point and often they are not. They also have less mitigation since thrill of battle is extra health and not a mit (it sucks screw thrill)

Somehow you made 3 statements and all are wrong

-in AOE every GCD under bloodwhetting is a benediction
-WAR has the best invuln in the game
-thrill is a mitigation, unless you want to consider a 20% shield as “not mitigation”

[Hanzz96]

Somehow you made 3 statements and all are wrong

-in AOE every GCD under bloodwhetting is a benediction
-WAR has the best invuln in the game
-thrill is a mitigation, unless you want to consider a 20% shield as “not mitigation”

Lets address this because i'm not wrong.

1. Holmgang is the best and worst invuln in the game. You get to use it more which makes it good. But it means you cant go below 1 health so when it ends you are on one health. If the healer isn't on point they will die which is why they have self healing.

2. Thrill is not mitigation. It is extra health and a heal for that health. Its not even a shield. Please learn the difference between shield and mitigation

3. Once again only in aoe and you should be using damaging abilities instead of cure botting

[Kirutsuki]

Hard disagree here....

I wouldn't say mitigation in of itself is a big issue. It's more-so the self heals.
It just makes healers feel unneeded for 90% of the games battle content. So there is a need to for an adjustment.
My brain goes to at the very least lowering how much self-heals each tank does to themselves.

Mitigation I would say is harder to change cause in alot of end-game content the fight itself would have to be adjusted also.
I think War and DRK have 5 mitigations, Pal has 7 and I think GNB has 4???

So while I think it might be true that these are needed in high end, there's nothing stopping from giving that one mitigation button to a healer job in form of a a shield.
So instead of WHM having 2 stacks of Divine Benison, it now has 3. And that mit button could be like a 2nd berserk or something.

But yea, mostly it's the self heals that just make things incredibly dull for healers. I would understand like one self heal that's on cooldown for those panic moments.
But 7, or 8?

[MsQi]

Make Normal "Raids" more than a series of trials.

[Saraide]

>xeno fan

ah that explains the posts then

[Hanzz96]

>xeno fan

ah that explains the posts then

No just a raider who tried to be diplomatic in my original post but you people are never happy. High end content relies on current tank kits. I tried to say the game is balanced for everyone and you still play victim

[Supersnow845]

No just a raider who tried to be diplomatic in ny original post but you people are never happy. High end content relies on current tank kits. I tried to say the game is balanced for everyone and you still play victim

“High end content is designed for current kits”

“Increases kits then ups content demand”

“High end content is designed for current kits”


Yeah and HW savage was designed for HW kits, that’s literally just a vapid statement that means literally nothing

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

So what have I gathered from last page?

"Healing enmity is some novelty that shouldn't exist."
"Healers suddenly needing to do their primary responsibility is a nightmare."
"Tanks invuln has to be independently useful or they're bad. And by useful, it means doing more than just surviving a hit that would've otherwise put me to 0 HP."

Lol. Lmao even.

[Aviatorhead]

the tank is the fail safe and the literal shield of the party its their literal job to carry if the group looses its healer stop

Bowser-throwing this idea directly into hell and never making it happen again would make the game 100x better, actually. I would genuinely be happy with the devs if they ignored people like you and just fixed the damn game already.

That's not how tanks were supposed to work. That's not how they work ANYWHERE ELSE in any other game like this. And why would they? Noone pays a sub for a game, just to watch someone else play it for them. That is ridiculous. If you can't handle having to retry content because your team isn't familiar with it or dies because they're bad? You need to play solo player games.

Then we'll have the issue of tanks dying because of lazy healers which happens. Honestly people like to complain if people here spent as much time doing content as they do complaing they wouldn't be moaning about a content drought

It is a MULTIPLAYER TEAM GAME.

That is the whole point. If your team can't f up, if there's no chance of a "lazy healer" killing you, then wtf are we here for? A jaunty walk through a corridor with some cool guys? You should feel threatened if your healer is being 'lazy', they won't change or learn anything if they're lazyness just results in the same outcome as if they were actually trying.

[Alice_Rivers]

There are a few factors I can think of off the top of my head for normal mode:-
1: Tank-Healer balance doesn't exist, tanks are healers for all intents and purposes.
2: Tank mechanics don't exist, at all. They used to have to manage positioning but that's gone, enmity functionally doesn't exist, "busters" are a joke and so tanks become glorified striking dummies.
3: There's nothing interesting about mobs, they haven't mechanics to play out, they don't do damage, why do they exist?
4: Bosses aren't interesting either, just go to the safe spot, rinse and repeat. The two times they've broken from that model in DT they did so in the most annoying ways possible (Strayborough first boss and Yuweyawatta last boss) those aren't exactly interesting either (though I don't object to the return of Ruby Weapon, it could stand to be randomised with more variants) they're just annoying.

So what to do? Well lets start with tank/healer balance. Given M6S and other high end content that actually does place demands on tank kits and has been known to stress healers, I'm hesitant to hit tanks too hard but there is room for adjustments, does BW for example really need to heal for every enemy hit? No. It can top out at three, that's still 1200 potency per aoe GCD (4800 over the duration) then there's the question of does it need to be 400 potency per hit? If it came down to 300, 900 for aoe, 3600 over the duration is lower than healer single target GCD at least and then plays more like a mitigation than an actual heal. I would even be open to suggesting it should have different potencies for single and multi-target attacks so it could remain 400 potency per hit on single target GCD and do 300 on multi target ones that way it's functionally unaffected for raids. PLD's HS regen could be a 150/200 potency instead of being (in WHM terms) a regen plus aquaveil, consider that for a moment, one tank oGCD has the same value as a healer's full GCD PLUS an oGCD isn't that a bit much? I don't object generally to PLD having small heals here and there, they're supposed to be white magic practitioners after all. I'm sure similar tweaks can be made across the tank kits.

Tank mechanics too, starting with busters: Busters need to HURT, not "wups, you didn't mitigate so you lost 30% of your HP" but more like "you threw in a big mit? I guess I'll spare your life then" These are supposed to be threatening, they even have a threatening red animation, then healers would be needed to clean up lest tanks die after the buster. Positioning and enmity should be self explanatory, but as has been suggested in other threads by other people, giving bosses attacks against other players that need to be blocked/mitigated/prevented by the tank gives tanks something to think about during fights and helps justify their "self or party member" abilities. I imagine tank players could come up with more and better ways to add gameplay to tanks.

Making mobs an actual threat to the party would also help to address how bland dungeons are, a start to that would be to make them cooperate, if one type doles out vulns, another paralysis and a third type then does major damage suddenly there's the potential for the party to take major damage. Personally I'd remove their cast timers too, make even their most threatening attacks instant. Another way to handle this and combat the formulaic feel of dungeons is to actually integrate them into the story with sections relevant to the story they're part of. Stone Vigil Hard for example, has a story of Ishgard trying to reclaim the fort after your first clearing of it and it's gone wrong, the closest we get to integration of that story is the second boss fight. Why not have a section where you have to assist a group of Ishgardian soldiers fight their way out of the fort? You can even get better rewards for having more of them survive. Vanaspati too, you could have a section where you're protecting people from monsters or helping them evacuate...