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  1. #31
    Player
    Memento's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    33
    Character
    Layton Faust
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    I've been here since 1.0 - the worst of the worst. I'll never understand how people can defend the game being in the state it is while also raking in more money than it ever has. Its clear SE isn't investing in this game like it should and deserves to be.
    (13)

  2. #32
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,820
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Progging forked more makes me feel like there is an element of designing boredom to their decisions

    Anyone who has done forked up to magitaur will tell you that the puzzles are really well designed and you can feel the devs had fun flexing the phantom job utility as far as possible. Something like bridges wouldn’t be possible without it being a high end field content duty and the map room is arguably the most beautiful area of the game in its entirety

    But if you made forked normal you’d be cutting out the three puzzle sections and replacing them with DRN “here’s 2 pointless traps that may kill a random or a vet who stopped caring”. It just feels (at least to me) they wanted to make what became current forked and not be limited by what could conceivably fit in a normal mode

    It’s not really a valid reason from the wider customer perspective but I can at least imagine it must get boring to create normal instances that are designed to be destroyed with little thought
    (2)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  3. #33
    Player Mawlzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2023
    Posts
    2,824
    Character
    Jessa Marko
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeqbit View Post
    You didn't specify what sort of cost. Financial cost? Time cost? Productivity cost?

    In terms of financial cost, not really, because SE clearly has billions of yen.

    In terms of time cost, which is the specifically what led to the Forked Tower issue, yes, because you can't necessarily employ someone, train them and assign them a task if there is not enough time to do so.

    That said, they should have predicted the issue and accounted for it earlier than they did. Unfortunately, they had only decided to make a Field Operation right before the expansion release due to Zepla's video, so they didn't actually have as much time to plan it as they did all their other content.
    Are they really making content decisions based on a single video or content creator? There were rumors that was why CAR had the characteristics it did. If so, a bizarre approach when surveying the player base as a whole is an option used by many companies.
    (0)

  4. #34
    Player
    BigCheez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    732
    Character
    Cheez Whiz
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mawlzy View Post
    Are they really making content decisions based on a single video or content creator? There were rumors that was why CAR had the characteristics it did. If so, a bizarre approach when surveying the player base as a whole is an option used by many companies.
    Not a single video or creator, but they've been making changes based on feedback given by content creators since the dawn of time. Many of the oversimplifications to the combat system were implemented in response to "feedback" from Xeno, for example.
    (1)

  5. #35
    Player
    Khryseis_Astra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    1,689
    Character
    Khryseis Astra
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    Progging forked more makes me feel like there is an element of designing boredom to their decisions

    Anyone who has done forked up to magitaur will tell you that the puzzles are really well designed and you can feel the devs had fun flexing the phantom job utility as far as possible. Something like bridges wouldn’t be possible without it being a high end field content duty and the map room is arguably the most beautiful area of the game in its entirety

    But if you made forked normal you’d be cutting out the three puzzle sections and replacing them with DRN “here’s 2 pointless traps that may kill a random or a vet who stopped caring”. It just feels (at least to me) they wanted to make what became current forked and not be limited by what could conceivably fit in a normal mode

    It’s not really a valid reason from the wider customer perspective but I can at least imagine it must get boring to create normal instances that are designed to be destroyed with little thought
    Would a Normal mode necessarily have to be boring though? What is it about the puzzles that have to be high-end difficulty? You wouldn’t think a good puzzle would need a rez limit or wipe mech to make it more interesting… If the puzzles require certain phantom jobs to complete, just have Normal mode allow you to switch phantom jobs as long as you’re out of combat.
    (8)

  6. #36
    Player Mawlzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2023
    Posts
    2,824
    Character
    Jessa Marko
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by BigCheez View Post
    Not a single video or creator, but they've been making changes based on feedback given by content creators since the dawn of time. Many of the oversimplifications to the combat system were implemented in response to "feedback" from Xeno, for example.
    Makes sense. Basing changes on an unrepresentative sliver of the player base is a recipe for disaster.
    (2)

  7. #37
    Player
    Jeeqbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    7,758
    Character
    Oscarlet Oirellain
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mawlzy View Post
    Are they really making content decisions based on a single video or content creator? There were rumors that was why CAR had the characteristics it did. If so, a bizarre approach when surveying the player base as a whole is an option used by many companies.
    I've no idea about Chaotic but it was the case for the Field Operation because they said so. In general, they watch a lot of videos on YouTube so they get a sense of all the memes and things like that.

    When content creators go to Fanfests they tend to discover a lot of Square Enix staff are fans, regardless of the region they work in. That shouldn't be surprising when, after over 10 years, a lot of people working for Square Enix were just players of the game before that.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigCheez View Post
    Not a single video or creator, but they've been making changes based on feedback given by content creators since the dawn of time. Many of the oversimplifications to the combat system were implemented in response to "feedback" from Xeno, for example.
    I mean there were probably specific changes that he influenced. For example, the entire debacle with Strength vs Vitality that led to a series of plaster fixes culminating in the Shadowbringers stat rebalancing and the Tank Mastery trait, or that big rant on needing to switch to Gunbreaker to clear P8S. Maybe they eventually saw one of his DRK Living Dead memes?

    But I think it's a lot bigger than Xeno really. I think their goal is to make the game playable by people who just returned to the game after 6 years, people who are not gamers but are dragged into the game by their partner, etc. And that goal has shaped years upon years of decisions, including the move away from status effects in Stormblood, where they added job gauges instead, aligning buff windows, giant hitboxes, bosses recentering themselves, etc. It's all to reduce stress for that 6-year returning player, or non-gamer partner that was dragged into playing.

    I don't disagree that they should make it playable by them but they should make it also enjoyable for people who are actually gamers and give them options. And to a certain extent, dungeons were perfectly fine for such players in Heavensward despite these things not being the case... sure they may have died to things and done their rotation completely wrong, but it didn't matter.

    If they listened to Xeno it's probably only because they agreed with it anyway.
    (1)

  8. #38
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,820
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra View Post
    Would a Normal mode necessarily have to be boring though? What is it about the puzzles that have to be high-end difficulty? You wouldn’t think a good puzzle would need a rez limit or wipe mech to make it more interesting… If the puzzles require certain phantom jobs to complete, just have Normal mode allow you to switch phantom jobs as long as you’re out of combat.
    Something like bridges really wouldn’t work without it being high end simply because of how the mechanic works, if you removed everything that made bridges high end (coordinating both sides, high damage from wildcharges, specific necessary jobs, inter tank coordination as examples) then bridges wouldn’t be bridges

    You could probably get away on hallways just removing super traps and only having one hallway rather than splitting and having two mirrored hallways

    Lockwards the rooms would probably be doable but the dance with the lockwards probably not, the map room is fine though

    So it might work, but I wouldn’t definitively say it would work
    (1)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  9. #39
    Player
    0blivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2025
    Posts
    296
    Character
    G'raha Tinya
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    You can't have hypercasual content that is fun and engaging because, as Snow said, it's designed to be destroyed with little thought. All content becomes trivial if you remove the parts that makes it what it is. If you removed DPS checks, mandatory mitigation and coordination from Savage, you'd get boring slop. The same goes for Forked Tower. I think the devs designed it exactly the way they intended, but I wouldn't mind them giving hypercasuals a normal version.

    But you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Either you enjoy the challenges of the video game and put in the required effort to overcome them, or you can grind mindless content without access barriers, or non-combat content. Or PvP.
    (0)
    Midcore is when you take a look at an Ultimate, nod along sagely to a guide and decide to do it when you get 12 months of uninterrupted vacation, which is to say: never.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mawlzy View Post
    I think at this point 0blivion has decided to play forum villain, until perhaps the Exarch cloak becomes available.

  10. #40
    Player
    ShadowyZero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    287
    Character
    Mashmallow Ushio
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 80
    the suits don't like diverting resources to their cash cow cause people keep paying dozens of amounts for this game and its predecessor which to this day is still somehow live service despite its age lmao if people would stop paying subs then they'd be sweating again but obviously they make enough to not feel like "rocking the boat" i think honestly what YoshiP is trying to tell us is that he fought the suits but the suits won an diverted the resources away from this project to be withheld until 8.0 launch assuming they meet their pre-order quota that is.
    its honestly the playerbase, content yappers, and community team's fault for why we are plummeting so hard in quality and quantity cause they refused to hold the game to a higher standard an boycott paying for the game to force SE to correct course afraid the only thing we can hope for is another 1.0 fiasco to make the game crash an burn all over again its the only option left to us at this point to salvage whats left otherwise look forward to this game following its predecessor's footsteps an fading into obscurity
    (1)

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