PvP Frontline, same old, nothing new

[Valence]

How's this? How about we re-read it together then?

Yes, indeed, how about we do re-read it together?

- "nothing has changed, it's still a premade fiesta": how in the actual hell is this even aggroing on premades? You'll have to explain this to me because just quoting parts having the word premade inside doesn't instantly make it hostile to premades, you know?
- "steamroll games with little skill involved beyond having the right group" : I do stand by my words, and perhaps then we'll just disagree on principle, especially when the result is just seal clubbing.
- "The DRK pulls in are still going stronger than ever": you got me good there, good job. Of course there is DRKs everywhere, they didn't evidently vanish. The meta has just widened on tanks notably, but you'll most often find at least a DRK trying to still pull the usual strat.
- "works for games full of pvp FL veterans all with their own little premades": once more, just because there is written premade in the quoted text doesn't make it automatically hostile to premades, and in fact there if you actually take it in context it's specifically written that FL seems balanced for custom FLs full of premades (which is a mode that still shines by its absence).
- "the minority of tryhards" / "tryhard groups will farm their tomes": if you consider tryhard is derogatory, then I apologize, because I don't, especially when it's been seen used countless times by players just speaking along the lines of "I'm tryharding this run".
- "are also more skilled at pvp": how in the deepest pits of hell is recognizing basic skill, pressing buttons and the ability not to feed, even hostile to premades?!
- "it's just seal clubbing time": again, how is this hostile to premades? It's literally just stating that people are getting slaughtered/farmed by those groups. You've indicated your condescension for the players that have, according to you, no skill and should get gud as an explanation for this, I've countered by saying including in this OP that I do believe that the source of such issues almost always comes from the developer and design decisions that may magnify problems (including skill differences), or create such issues. If anything, it's your interventions that seem hostile to casual players, not mine being hostile to premades.

The only one I'll grant to you is that one: "We're still pandering to the few sweaty tryhards that brainlessly steamroll over the rest". It's clearly a blanket statement with derogatory terms like brainless and sweaty. But don't go and pretend that this is the essence of the OP, else you're just being, yes, disingenuous and trying to misconstrue the OP.

Y'know, I was in the middle of typing out a response to each of yours, but then I realized that if you're going to respond with arguments about about how EU plays instead of NA, and cherry-pick instances of "well sometimes we do this too, so it's basically the same" (which is not the equivalent to an unspoken behavior/ a regular habit of theirs), then there really isn't a point of explaining to you why the JP crowd would have less grievances about the current Frontlines system. You say you don't think it is about skill disparities, while telling me your EU games can end in under 5 minutes and devolve into seal clubbing. Yeah, okay. Everyone is just imagining JP matches being more coordinated and closer in score and can just dismiss it as stereotypes.

What you quoted is essentially a NA problem if true, as I said. It's never been about cherry picking.
I don't see this on EU much if at all. And yet EU still suffers from similar issues, which is indicative to me that the situations that you pointed as happening on your end isn't the core source of the problem since it barely happens on my end, and if you want to disagree on this, feel free to, but you're not gonna change my mind beyond pitying NA for having to deal with what you listed. It must genuinely suck.

The only thing you're consistently tried so far is trying to shift the subject back to strawmen, and the subject has never been about blaming premades.


Edit: if you actually want to shit on premade haters or just state your disagreement with people blaming said premades for all the woes on earth, then I'd respectfully point you to that other active thread currently called "Ban Premades from Frontlines".