@Casuals , do you think the message has gotten through?

[Gurgeh]

@Casuals
(people who want to do challenging content, but don't like lots of guides, don't like waiting 45 minutes for PFs fill and then collapse after 2nd pull, don't like progpoint threats, don't like scheduling, don't like the anti-ToS stuff that always goes with discords.)

Do you think the message has gotten through?

I was really impressed with the live letter because of the bravery it took. It was going to be a double edged sword, and it has been. But the way to fix that problem is with the game, not by avoiding the issue and sweeping it under the carpet, not with a service game.

However: when I saw the announcement of delay of Ultimate, and all the bowing and the clear apologising, and the kowtowing, that came with that, even though they were promising it would still be coming (before 8.x)...
When I compare that with the brief covering of lack of FT 'normal' got, I realised I felt a little sick as I suddenly spotted the difference...
At first I interpreted Yoshi's demeanour RE FT normal as he was 'not happy' that there wasn't one but didn't want to comment, but then I realised, I don't think there was an apology?
They really do offer apologies when they 'are' sorry.
I take that as they didn't apologise becuase they still don't see the problem, they are just giving in. (this time)
I now interpret it, that I don't think they do agree there was a problem just providing FT designed and tuned to keep Ultimate raiders feeling it was worth their attempt, but rather that they will be conceding, condescending even, to provide an OC normal, if people really insist.

This I think doesn't bode well, for them turning the game around at all for the players that are leaving (and will be leaving once they are caught up).

That I think, I'm afraid means, that I can't hope for much from 8.x.
As many have now said. 8.x doesn't need to be good, it needs to be "knocking it out of the park" all the way from 8.0, to 8.1.x . And it needs to be for the people who are not happy, that's not the high end players.
That requires the greatest of passion from inside. I don't see how that passion can be there if they still don't think they owe a far greater apology for FT that for the mere delaying of the next ultimate.

Well done for the live letter I supposed. But the reason we didn't get FT normal, is because savage did get Chaotic, savage will be getting DDlvl100+ (and it won't be Ex difficulty, and there is a big difference)
An Ex difficulty dungeon (because it only has 4 people) should not need strategy videos. It especially should not need progpoints that the community will attack each other over because of disagreements over polish-practice vs mastery not having to suffer each other.

(Savage players please just stay out of it. Please don't argue we just need to enjoy something we don't, or should start playing games for reasons other than fun, like you. Your happy. Your not leaving. It's not of consequence to the game what you think, unless your argument is that the latest bancho figures are jut fine, which many of you do think, we already know so you don't need to repeat that.)

I do especially want to hear if many casual players do take the live letter otherwise, and read between the lines that CB3 agree they do want to be providing more midcore (accessible but still where playing well matters).

[Nero-Voidstails]

sadly I have no hope because as long as ultimate/savage are the focus the game jobs and combat will never improve

[ovIm]

> do you think the message has gotten through?
no.

[Erzaa]

Nope. If you don't raid, you don't exist to them.

[Kaurhz]

Nothing has gotten through.

Nothing more needs to be said.

People simply wanted more engagement outside of the typical upper-difficulty raid content, and the only thing they did was speed it up slightly (Which isn't saying much seeing as we come off an expansion where chopping wood in Runescape was more engaging than doing many of these dungeons). Once you adjust to that speed, then it's just no different from what they've always given.

Everything is still underpinned by the same stale formula, which barely works, people are getting bored of it, and it shows, especially for those less tolerable. I unfortunately don't really expect to the game to get better, really... Even if they did address some of these concerns, it's still an issue with overall patch cadence, waiting near enough a year for content which fits the bar, just ain't it.

I feel like their idea of inducing stress back into the game, has also come with creating personal challenges for themselves to see how horrible they can actually design things.

[Carin-Eri]

No. I still feel that the Live Letter Q&A responses were tone-deaf. And I feel that apologising is only worthwhile when you actually address the issue(s) that made the apology necessary. I don't feel the sort of responses we got, which basically amounted to:
Player Feedback: "this is a problem"
YoshiP: "We will consider addressing this in the future" OR "I don't consider this to be a problem"
really address anything.

[Mawlzy]

Given that my reaction, as well as that of my closest in-game friend, was to unsubscribe immediately after the LL, I think that answers the OP's question.

I'm also going to make a prediction, because if it pans out I can show everyone how clever I am, and if it doesn't everyone will have forgotten about it and I can just whistle like it never happened.

Ahem.

By 8.3, the player count will have fallen to one third the EW peak.

[Gwenkatsu]

@Casuals (people who want to do challenging content...

i do especially want to hear if many casual players do take the live letter otherwise

I have zero interest in doing challenging content (in FF14 at least). And I don't watch/read live letters, or any other sort of proclamation from the studio.
Seems I don't even qualify as casual any longer

[Nadda]

I really don't think Forked Tower needs a Normal mode.

And that's not like "Look at how good I am" - I haven't done it myself yet but once I go in I'll manage it.

I think with dedicated discord groups like people have used for all the other Field Operations that with friendly approachable people to call out you can be piloted through the fight. I think that's just the nature of things you got to let people figure things out and the more things are figured out the more people can come along. Raids in Field Operations I feel require that bit of mystique and mystery. The rest of the overworld for OC though I think is good challenge for players of all ranges.

That being said Chaotic was content that the team dropped on a whim without prompting... I honestly don't know who it was for. People who did it called it entry level for players to start savage... but that's nonsense. EX is how you get people who never did savage ready to try savage... or just doing Savage itself. All of our high end content is designed around the 8 man cell and well Chaotic ended up having all the issues I thought it would have with PF. I still stand by what I said when I first heard about it. I don't know who Chaotic was actually for.

I think I understand your concern though. I am concerned about Deep Dungeon being Pillar content for 7.3 because well not many people make it to the top floor as a group. Let alone solo. Solo is a 1% title.
That means more players have been to every Ultimate than they have seen the top floor of the Deep Dungeons by themselves.


So I'm very concerned about that. I know people will try to climb ... or in this case run through the Fey Lands but will never even reach floor 99 for the boss.
I liked the variant dungeons to be added for this reason.

Criterion is hard and worthy challenge for the hardcore... but Variants are nice. They are content that is challenging enough for a normal player they can do by themselves and complete or go with friends and even after you do them - the novelty of multiple paths makes them fun... now granted the new DD will of course be what's the word... like randomly generated as you go on (Actually I'll take that back until I see it as this new one looks really ambitious)

So I don't know - my encouragement for Casuals is don't lose hope!

[Erzaa]

I really don't think Forked Tower needs a Normal mode.

The problem is that there's also no equivalent of CLL or Dalriada, not just that it's another Discord raid. I could forgive them having another BA Discord slop, if they at least had something fun and repeatable for everyone else. They don't.

I think with dedicated discord groups like people have used for all the other Field Operations that with friendly approachable people to call out you can be piloted through the fight.

I don't ascribe to the "all raiders are a-holes trying to flex" mentality. Never did. That's why I've stayed away from the casuals vs raiders discussion happening in the other threads. That still doesn't change the fact that I don't enjoy raiding. I don't enjoy anything that forces me to treat my entertainment as a second job. It doesn't matter how many times they throw EX, Savage, Ultimate, Chaotic... whatever, in my face. I'm never touching that content. I've no interest in it.

I think I understand your concern though. I am concerned about Deep Dungeon being Pillar content for 7.3 because well not many people make it to the top floor as a group. Let alone solo. Solo is a 1% title.

I don't believe you do, because:

1. Endwalker's deep dungeon is a slog, literally. Lower floor mobs have endless HP pools and by the time you kill one, another's already spawned. The entire gimmick with that content is, miss a cast, die instantly. No room for recovering from mistakes. Oh, gee, look how difficult we made the content, just like everyone's been asking for.
2. Dawntrail's dungeons, normal trials and normal raids didn't change anything with the casual content or make it more fun. They just turned the speed up to 11. Don't get me wrong, they're still doable, but they're just too stressful to deal with on a week day after work. I'd do them once on a weekend, then never touch them again. But even for players who repeat them, it's what? 20 minutes, once a week? If you're interested in gearing?
3. For the entire last year, since DT released, it's been EX, Savage, Ultimate, Chaotic. Nothing else. Then, they finally release Field Operations, something the casual playerbase have been waiting for ages to do, and they're told, "ah, no, nothing you do here matters unless you want to join an external Discord group and prog a fight for weeks, if they even allow you to".
4. They announce Live Letter 7.3, pretty much tell everyone to our faces that they don't budget for casual players (be it resources, money, time, I don't care, it's all the same, they didn't budget), quickly skip over that, announce another Ultimate is development you lovely raiders, don't you worry, then also announce that the new Deep Dungeon gimmick is now, a harder boss fight unlocks for you raiders, so grab your buddies, climb to 99, then you get to have even more content to prog for yourselves.

And despite all that, I see people complaining that the Ultimate isn't dropping in 7.3, despite all the content that's already been given to raiders, while also some trying to gaslight me into believing what Yoshi-P said was, "oh, no, no we didn't budget for a savage Forked Tower, but the current Forked Tower is the normal mode"... right~

And throughout all that, still no mention of Variant release, beastmaster release, blue mage update, nothing.

As it stands, I'm tired of arguing and waiting. I'm completely boycotting 7.3 content in its entirety, not touching it. Not a single piece.

As for my sub, that's a little harder, it runs out in October, but I have both a house and a solo FC with subs that I sunk alot of time into. I'm trying to find the courage to just let it go.