Keeping Content Hard and Helping People Learn

[Mawlzy]

In fairness to the "Anyone can clear savage" argument, as someone who started savage in DT and previously "not a savage player", still don't really consider myself a savage player, I'm certainly not really good at it... Savage isn't really harder than normal, even, per se, it's just faster and more aggravating. Every error, however minor, is punished to such a degree that you will probably wipe or fail the final dps check so you wipe anyway and as a healer main I find it particularly frustrating because there's no room for healers in that paradigm but I've ranted about that elsewhere.

At the end of the day; savage is the same DDR as normal with the odd status effect thrown in to irritate you some more, resolves faster and punishes you unreasonably but if you can do normal content reliably then you are capable of doing savage, it's more a question of desire to do so. Which, to be absolutely clear, I will not fault anyone for saying they don't want to.

It's precisely the speed which walls people, and why many cannot clear normal reliably.

[Alice_Rivers]

It's precisely the speed which walls people, and why many cannot clear normal reliably.

I don't really mind the speed in normal, you've got easily five seconds from the cue showing to the snapshot happening, that should be more than enough time for the average player to process that there's a mechanic and where the safe spot is. Most will tell you "if you have to choose between dps and the mechanic, do the mechanic first, dps after" that seems reasonable to me. For me extreme is about the right balance of speed, complexity and punishment, a good healer can save most extreme runs which makes it miles better than savage and you can still sacrifice damage for mechanics without failing at enrage (unless your party is really low dps).

[Valence]

In fairness to the "Anyone can clear savage" argument, as someone who started savage in DT and previously "not a savage player", still don't really consider myself a savage player, I'm certainly not really good at it... Savage isn't really harder than normal, even, per se, it's just faster and more aggravating. Every error, however minor, is punished to such a degree that you will probably wipe or fail the final dps check so you wipe anyway and as a healer main I find it particularly frustrating because there's no room for healers in that paradigm but I've ranted about that elsewhere.

At the end of the day; savage is the same DDR as normal with the odd status effect thrown in to irritate you some more, resolves faster and punishes you unreasonably but if you can do normal content reliably then you are capable of doing savage, it's more a question of desire to do so. Which, to be absolutely clear, I will not fault anyone for saying they don't want to.

I have been raiding since SB (and retired this tier), and I do think savage actually exacerbates the scripted part of the DDR quite a lot. In normal modes you have a lot of seemingly random mechanics even though they still follow a script (mechanic A happens, then mechanics B happens, then C, and always in that order, like in savage), because the solutions of said mechanics don't involve a single, unique, unchangeable solution where everybody stands properly in one specific spot else you wipe. In NM players don't have to follow that impetus because while the DDR is scripted at the source, it is a lot less constrained, and therefore scripted, at the resolution end.

If anything, savage isn't necessarily faster than normal modes, especially in DT, or, it really depends, but I wouldn't consider it a defining factor there. If you take a look at the latest parts of say, P4S, P8S, P12S (as opposed to the frantic doorbosses), they're excruciatingly slow in resolving things, because they're more about puzzles and debuffs and it's been like this since forever (Midas/Omega).

[Gunz_Zbestest]

... I think we won't ever get anywhere with this conversation. Have a nice day, Mawlzy.

Lmfao, oh I do miss the condescending attitudes. Just dripping with ableism LOL. It's ok, you tried your best, it's not the games fault for being to hard on you, omg.

[Gunz_Zbestest]

The game should have a trainers badge. That's a great idea OP. Many people make alts for the sprout icon to relearn old content and not to mention, we have a 'looking to meld materia' icon, so why not add more customization?

[Gunz_Zbestest]

Oh. Seemed to me we'd reached a fair amount of concordance.

Have a nice day yourself.

You have the patience of a saint Mawlzy, seriously.

[Mawlzy]

You have the patience of a saint Mawlzy, seriously.

Oh, I don't think it's patience. I'm genuinely fascinated by the massive gulf between different segments of the FFXIV community, particularly because I see it reflected in the polarizations in the real world.

Here's an example that is trivial, but had me sitting slack jawed:

This is off-topic, but I think you would enjoy watching speedruns and challenge runs. I think it'd open your mind to what possibilities entail, and how far people are willing to go when theywant to do something. For entertainment value, of course lol I don't go around trying to pull all of that myself, but I love watching it and has changed my outlook on gaming for the better! Some people are truly insane, and I love them for it.

Setting aside the predictable insult that I am close-minded, why would I enjoy watching speedruns and challenge runs? Or more importantly, why would anyone assume I would enjoy watching such content when I've made it clear I regard current instanced PvE in FFXIV as dogshit? More generally, I don't watch other people playing video games (unless it's a guide to get through another awful MSQ dungeon). It doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Now I understand there are some people who do watch others playing video games, else we wouldn't be blighted with content creators and influencers. But why do people who enjoy such content have this unshakeable conviction that they understand my interests better than I do? It's truly perverse.

I think I know better than anyone else what my capabilities in raids and dungeons are, and what my leisure interests are. And yet in multiple threads on these boards, I'm told I am wrong. It's an aggressive negation of the feelings of others and it's extremely unhealthy.

I've never come across such arrogance in any community, gaming or otherwise. I'm glad I'm leaving it.

[Shurrikhan]

And if she had fun, great. It then ended up worthwhile content for her, at least when/as encouraged by friends, etc. But that doesn't mean it will be for everyone. Not everyone will enjoy themselves on the way to those successes, or possibly even even in just from the first clear's run onward, to make that worth their while, especially under those circumstances. Just as not everyone will want to do DD or Exploratory Missions. (See also the reaction to WoW players being forced to do the equivalent of each just to be competitive in raids.)

For instance, I straight up don't like most battlegrounds in WoW, instead preferring 2v2 arena, and would rather prog M+ to well above the difficulty of some Mythic raid progression friends would deem undue masochism than doing Mythic raid progression myself.

[Gunz_Zbestest]

Oh, I don't think it's patience. I'm genuinely fascinated by the massive gulf between different segments of the FFXIV community, particularly because I see it reflected in the polarizations in the real world.

Here's an example that is trivial, but had me sitting slack jawed:



Setting aside the predictable insult that I am close-minded, why would I enjoy watching speedruns and challenge runs? Or more importantly, why would anyone assume I would enjoy watching such content when I've made it clear I regard current instanced PvE in FFXIV as dogshit? More generally, I don't watch other people playing video games (unless it's a guide to get through another awful MSQ dungeon). It doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Now I understand there are some people who do watch others playing video games, else we wouldn't be blighted with content creators and influencers. But why do people who enjoy such content have this unshakeable conviction that they understand my interests better than I do? It's truly perverse.

I think I know better than anyone else what my capabilities in raids and dungeons are, and what my leisure interests are. And yet in multiple threads on these boards, I'm told I am wrong. It's an aggressive negation of the feelings of others and it's extremely unhealthy.

I've never come across such arrogance in any community, gaming or otherwise. I'm glad I'm leaving it.

It's because people mistake validation for value. They get mad when you don't need it and so they try to insult you to make you feel 'lesser'. It's a defense mechanism to protect their fragile egos. You know your own capabilities better than them and they can't use the same motivational tactics that were used on them to work on you and it pisses them off lol.

[Shistar]

Lmfao, oh I do miss the condescending attitudes. Just dripping with ableism LOL.

It's not condescending or ableist in that message, but read it however you want if that makes you happier... much like Cid before, I am done trying to have a discussion with people who feel like they're just looking for a word to get triggered by, ignore the entire message, and get hung up over hypotheticals and assumptions.

It's ok, you tried your best, it's not the games fault for being to hard on you, omg.

?






Cid, Altina and I have said it a bunch of times already. If you wanna do something, cool go do it, believe in your dreams, you can make it. If you don't wanna, then don't do it, no one's pointing at you with a gun to play the game. You guys complain about being targeted and treated a certain way, but you will do the same immediately after seemingly without seeing the hypocrisy of it all.

I am genuinely mystified at how you could extrapolate all of that from what was basically "good job, believe in your dreams.".

I mean, you literally said "everybody can achieve anything if they put their mind into it", which you'll excuse me sounded pretty much differently, but if that was just about believing in one's dreams and have confidence, then I guess this is a storm in a kettle then.

lol