Thread: 8.0 DPS Job Rework Workshop/Megathread. Goals, Design Principles, and Mock-Ups.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Hiding feedback again in order not to cause excess scrolling time between original posts:

Just two points I want to focus on most:

They're not exactly the same, though, especially so long as you return timers to Disciplined Fist and Demolish, though there may, yes, be a best choice in each GCD.

Skills with high individual damage are best used under damage buffs. Everything else is best used under speed to increase the portion of uptime spent on stronger skills, because amping the weaker skills by 5% is not worth as much as getting through them 5.3% (actually quantized by durations, but this is just a spherical cow) faster and thereby increasing the portion of stronger skills that are then further amplified.

Like, if we want the stances to be choices at all, then we're going need to have...

1. branching paths that still ultimately (though in complicated fashion) have a best answer or
2. clear best answers across a 60- or 120-second period (due to Blitz, Disciplined, and Demolish line-ups), or
3. at minimum, preferred stances for each action (Wind for low-pppgcd [personal potency per gcd] skills, Fire for high potency-GCDs where oGCDs in gap are obviously included),
   or...
   
   
4. as before, Wind and Earth are dps losses used only as a last resort and rarely able to make any real difference to survivability or mobility anyways (unless you amp the hell out of them, risking making Earth OP overall, or redesign them to use a sort of granular resource)...
5. at which point, you might as well have Wind and Earth consume MP and remove Fire altogether, or
6. turn Fists of Fire into your granular Riddle of Fire phase -- perhaps only affecting beast skills or adding flat potency if worried about them being overly obligatory for oGCDs and/or Blitz or applying some other way to force stance-rotation, such as, idk, ramping drain costs from staying in a given stance too long.

Whatever the case, adding that allows for some small-gap skill-expression akin to Shadowbringers positionals for those who like a stick-shift feel that's less hamfisted and not nearly so wasteful as Shadowbringers' stances.

The original point was to prevent any situation where you would be forced to have a burst in a specific point in your rotation, so it does go against the initial design direction. Even with stating to have a 'clear best answer across a 60- or 120- second period' is what I was trying to avoid. Break away from that standardisation that has plagued jobs since EW. Now, I'm not saying this idea couldn't work, however, I do believe this sort of idea should be the foundation of the job and then the rest of the job built on top. This way, you can bring in the individual elements together and have it feel complete rather than trying to ham fist it into my design which would have 2 different ideas kind of fighting and opposing each other. The more complete ideas we can have for jobs, the better at the end of the day.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Not many. My point, though, was just that it's a raid-scaled skill that at best gets up to, well, flat potency damage that'd normally be the baseline, and is sort of the opposite of support thematically (everyone supports the Bard, instead of the Bard supporting others).

Thinking about it, wouldn't all raid buffs also suffer with less people? So in essence, Brotherhood and Arcane Circle is no different. I also like the distinction between 'everyone supports the Bard' and 'the Bard supports everyone else'. With most jobs following the 'Bard supports everyone', having more jobs break away from that and instead going along the lines of 'everyone supports the Bard' is another direction a job can take to make it stand out from others.

Originally Posted by Caldra

- Make Hyoton into a 60 second dot with good potency! (Could maybe add a raiju stack, too)

Not really a Ninja user, but isn't the fact Hyoton synergises with Kassatsu to make Hyosho Ranryu give a use to Hyoton?

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Or even return Mutilate and Shadowfang on one of said combos...

As long as it uses Dancing Edge's animation.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Or is the community still on a hate-binge for DoTs (per which the concept itself is inseparable from any dated intuitiveness of XIV UI in general -- including effect caps and lack of any decent effect display filtering) that may hold it back presently)?

For me personally, a DoT shouldn't be added just for the sake of having a DoT. The DoT should have some influence in how the job is played in some way or be interacted with in one form or another. As an example, Hignbana. Again, not a high level Samurai player, but it is from my understanding that how you exit the burst phase and your GCD speed influences how you prepare for the next, which is mostly based around the timing of Higanbana, or, going back to an older version of Bard where the DoTs were the ones that procced Repertoire and also had the chance for a double proc if both DoTs crit etc.