Forked Tower premade patch coming before 7.3

[ACE135]

and I'm saying given it's design, you won't clear it outside of discord... unless like majority of the 48 is comprised of people who've already cleared.

Just curious: Wouldn't you also need people who cleared the content to be able give reliable callouts in discord? I mean even the people in discord probably failed mechanics before they understood them. So can't it be the same without discord, that people fail (many times) in order to understand what to do in the end?

[MarniDawg]

It wasn't already implied that I haven't done it yet when I said I didn't want to get carried by a Discord?

My comments have been curiosity on how we might accomplish it in public PFs. I'm certainly going to look for them and see what resources might develop that make it possible. It's not meant to be reductive but more to theorize on how we might accomplish it as the non-Discord community. And if it doesn't work, to find the pain points we can give feedback on to SE about why. But we have to try it first.

My honest opinion on the best way to do this is have the wtfdig website post the strats and have specific roles do specific phantom jobs. As long as the 6 parties can queue together and everything else is decided (strats/jobs) beforehand then it all comes down to people's patience with each other while everyone screws it up until they don't.

[ChrysOCE]

Your point? What's the goalpost you want to artificially set up where someone can say they're a Savage raider? You people really are sad.

JFC the mentality of some of these posters. Actual cringe to make a claim that, cause you didnt clear in an arbitrary amount of time, your opinion is somehow less valid. Fucking spare me.

[Diclonius]

Wow, another person giving raiders a bad name. You realize you're doing the people you are claiming to be superior to all other players a big disservice by your behavior?
And at the same time, you criticize others social skills. Congrats, I guess you really mastered the art of projection.

Some people on this forum, I swear...

Hit the nail on the head, thank you for calling out this behavior.

[RiotSiren]

I'm gonna cut this off at the pass and ignore the 12 pages of people yelling at each other in circles about the obvious problems with this content and it's relation to discord.

Pretty much everyone is in agreement it's access is poorly designed from most angles considering the content type and difficulty. Cool? Cool.

1: The reason they are doing this right now, is because it's a low hanging fruit solution to a major issue that is heavily impacting the content being played. Forked tower was designed to be a part of the OC zone and likely can not be removed into it's own que without a major rework, particularly on the back end. This was the easiest and quickest solution they could put out so that players can actually DO the content. We can argue if discord should be required or not till our hands bleed but that does not change the reality of how the content was created. They simply made a quick change that made the content more easy to access for premade groups.

2: They likely will NEVER create a normal mode for this, not because they have some sort of specific contempt for "casual" players but because at this point it simply isn't really a valid solution to this issue. No matter how much money you can throw at it, development takes time, making a normal mode of forked tower would practically be the equivalent of making a 24 man raid. Just because it's easier to play, does not mean it's easier to make, it would still require just as much play testing, and bug testing as the current Forked tower did. Everyone saying "Just remove _____ _____ and _______,and put it out" have no idea how the development process works, particularly at a company this large. Even if they threw infinite money at it, it would still take far longer then they have. By the time it would be released this content would be long out of it's "new" period, hell it already is. Likely it wouldn't be ready until later portion of OC are already complete, and by that point, its far to late. Yoshi P was saying there will not be a normal mode created, because by the time it would finish it would 100% be dead on arrival with it released as already out dated content in the progression of OC by the time its done.


For the record, I agree there 100% should have been a normal mode, and this content was designed in a way that was "out of touch" to put in generously. Considering how rare this kind of quick change is and how unanimous the distaste for the entry methods of this content is, I think they know they messed up. They looked at the situation, looked at the easiest, quickest, and most importantly viable way the could make the content *Playable* and did it.

They chose the method that made the content more accessible to the people who wanted to approach it as a group, because any solution to make the content more accessible to the general public would take much longer to implement, long enough that it would no longer really be worth it.

So many people on this forum have this bizzare "us vs them" mentality, where they get mad when people who aren't them get what they want and they don't. Nothing about this change takes away from players who want a easier Forked tower, and I 100% agree with you that it should have been normalish difficulty in the first place. But this change specifically isn't about the developers "catering to hardcore" or anything of the sort, it's simply about making the already created content actually accessible.

For whatever it's worth there is no chance they aren't scrambling to add a normal mode to the next big raid at this moment to avoid this situation when the next zone comes out.

[mallleable]

Whoa, so they can smack the emergency maint button to make big changes like this.

Thanks!

[Mawlzy]

2: They likely will NEVER create a normal mode for this, not because they have some sort of specific contempt for "casual" players but because at this point it simply isn't really a valid solution to this issue. No matter how much money you can throw at it, development takes time, making a normal mode of forked tower would practically be the equivalent of making a savage version of a fight.

Nearly that much work, huh?

Yeah I imagine doing that 12 times for 7.X, they're all out of resources.

[SeriousPan]

Is the War on Discord over?

I wish it would be. I'm in some really great Discords who just wanna do the content and have been open and welcoming to literally anyone. 0 cliques, no exclusions. Just come in and do the content. But then I come here and its the freaking boogeyman with the same people denouncing anyone who makes a run that uses it like we're all scum for wanting to team up and do some fun content. It's fun content man even though its implementation is horrendous. I can't see myself forgiving the team for creating this unnecessary rift between people who are, in the end, just looking to have some god damn fun be it in game with no discord or with it.

Is this like an EU to NA thing? Or am I just extremely lucky that all the EU discords I'm in have been super chill? lol We had some "snipers" turn up to our run and we invited them into the group and they joined the Discord and then turned up the next weekend as a regular member trying to prog. We raise people in our runs who were in there randomly but we just hope they know what's up if they say no. I know not all discord communities are made equal but sometimes its disheartening to see good people get lumped in just for the platform they use to coordinate themselves through poorly thought out content.

Alright Square Enix I'll tell you how to fix Occult Crescent and get people to do Forked Tower, since you clearly don't know how to learn lessons from past content of this type.

1) remove the raise limit

Just this one change alone would make such a substantial difference. I recall that they apologised for the raise restriction and that it made players unhappy in previous content... only to bring it back again. lol We have all these jobs that can do unique things and then they make FT where you can potentially force your way through some totally gruelling fights through pure gumption and use of your kit and then you realise "Oh, no we can't. There's a death limit." Let alone the really small time limit inside the tower meaning having to explain the content to people, coordinate groups and all that leaves absolutely 0 time for miscommunications due to language barrier/prog differences/what have you.

The super traps are super funny 'cause it's like, oh cool we have a combo of Ranger/Thief that can find traps and clear the way for each other! And then there's a trap where if the Ranger isn't paying attention can just kill everyone anyway.

[RiotSiren]

Nearly that much work, huh?

Yeah I imagine doing that 12 times for 7.X, they're all out of resources.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm not defending them, I'm saying it wouldn't realistically be worth it or viable in a quick enough time frame. Developing a properly balanced, fun, and polished normal mode for players is a far bigger task then people seem to think it is. Forked tower was likely being worked on and balanced before DT even came out, for sure the assets existing would speed up the process, but you can't really rush things like play-testing, and the iteration it requires, unless you want extremely unpolished content, which I don't think you do. I agree this should have never been like this in the first place.

[Mawlzy]

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm not defending them, I'm saying it wouldn't realistically be worth it or viable in a quick enough time frame. Developing a properly balanced, fun, and polished normal mode for players is a far bigger task then people seem to think it is. Forked tower was likely being worked on and balanced before DT even came out, for sure the assets existing would speed up the process, but you can't really rush things like play-testing, and the iteration it requires, unless you want extremely unpolished content, which I don't think you do. I agree this should have never been like this in the first place.

Sensible position. I think many of us are just fuming at the "lack of resources" explanation of why there was no normal mode, when as you note, the amount of work (if committed to early) would be less than 1/12th that of the relatively niche savage raids of 7.X.