Thread: 8.0?

Originally Posted by Gwenkatsu

This. And for the love of god - no more cheap copy/paste scifi garbage.
Before DT all the scifi stuff in the game had some special look to it. The polychrome Allagan technology was ugly as hell, but it was unique. Magitek machinery always looks like it is powered by a steam engine. But Solution 9? The moon base? Robot soldiers, flying motorcycles, lasers and starbucks? There was nothing special about that garbage, it looked like in every other scifi game. Be creative, be unique - and don't reuse graphic sets you download for a buck from some website.

As much as I like a good story, this is like 3 days of content for a 2 and a half year expansion. The story is good, you finish it, then what? You're paying a monthly sub. The story may get you to buy the expansion, but will it get you to stay?

Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

As much as I like a good story, this is like 3 days of content for a 2 and a half year expansion. The story is good, you finish it, then what? You're paying a monthly sub. The story may get you to buy the expansion, but will it get you to stay?

The story defines the game world, and therefore the entire game. It is there 24/7, 365 days a year, 2.x years each expansion.
Without a story, you could run around as a blue sphere and shoot white spheres at huge red spheres to earn pink spheres which you take to a spheric merchant to increase your sphere's 5 base stats: Mass, Traction, Surface Type, Spin, and Core Energy.
Only the story gives a meaning to this stuff, that's why nothing is more important than the story.
At least that's the way I see it.

Originally Posted by Gwenkatsu

The story defines the game world, and therefore the entire game. It is there 24/7, 365 days a year, 2.x years each expansion.
Without a story, you could run around as a blue sphere and shoot white spheres at huge red spheres to earn pink spheres which you take to a spheric merchant to increase your sphere's 5 base stats: Mass, Traction, Surface Type, Spin, and Core Energy.
Only the story gives a meaning to this stuff, that's why nothing is more important than the story.
At least that's the way I see it.

EW had a great story and the discontent really began to begin there because beyond story, EW was empty. The game isn't a VN despite how much people want it to be. Nearly every RPG's world is defined by its story, but a good story doesn't make a good game. An example of this in a non-mmo is Mass Effect: Andromeda.

Conversely the opposite can be true like Minecraft.

This is, despite what people say, an MMORPG and needs to keep players entertained between patchs, and even if the story is excellent, is it going to keep you online for 4 months once you finish it or are you going to play other games until the patch comes out?

Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

EW had a great story and the discontent really began to begin there because beyond story, EW was empty. The game isn't a VN despite how much people want it to be. Nearly every RPG's world is defined by its story, but a good story doesn't make a good game. An example of this in a non-mmo is Mass Effect: Andromeda.

Conversely the opposite can be true like Minecraft.

This is, despite what people say, an MMORPG and needs to keep players entertained between patchs, and even if the story is excellent, is it going to keep you online for 4 months once you finish it or are you going to play other games until the patch comes out?

I didn't have a lot of problems with the story on Dawntrail, I was okay with the characters, it's just the MSQ was kind of a drag, it could have been amazingly written, but if I get the same experience in the story watching it through Youtube then is it really a good game?

I don't feel like FF has to be Baldur's Gate 3 level of immersion, but an epic adventure can't be epic with no stakes both for the characters and the players, it's why I advocate for a little less chat and a little more action.

Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

This is, despite what people say, an MMORPG and needs to keep players entertained between patchs, and even if the story is excellent, is it going to keep you online for 4 months once you finish it or are you going to play other games until the patch comes out?

When the story defines an interesting world, I am entertained. So yes, it will definitely keep me online for 4 months.
As I said in another thread, I'm easy to please as a customer. Unless a company royally effs up /cough/ DT /cough/
Shaaloani alone made me quit DT for 6 weeks, and Solution 9 didn't help either. So although there was still a lot of content for me to play, I rather went somewhere else. Just because story and scenario sucked so bad.

Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

As much as I like a good story, this is like 3 days of content for a 2 and a half year expansion. The story is good, you finish it, then what?

MMORPGs have always been like that. You have to create your own content between the patches, such as RP, PvP, crafting/gathering, helping newer players clear raids, grinds, completing all the achievements/side content. Never played an MMORPG that isn't like that.

I think what makes it difficult for some people is they don't see content as replayable due to it being scripted and having no dynamic factors to keep it fresh. But other than that it's like that in any MMORPG where the most dynamic gameplay is obviously PvP, crafting/selling, players having a much greater influence on how a raid plays out even if it is scripted to an extent.

For example, assigning raid roles that carry a lot of responsibility, but don't y'know, immediately 1-shot the entire raid if they mess it up a bit and leaves room for them to fix their mistake, like how a musician might mess up a note but they could recover it by their next notes. Or the holy trinity actually mattering.

Another example is FATEs. They are boring compared to something like Hamlet defense despite sometimes being similar and involving an attack on a settlement, and it's because they are very shallow. They don't need more than 1 person to account for solo players, crafters/gatherers aren't a factor, and nothing changes if they succeed/fail, except in a few ARR areas like South Shroud.

But other than that it's always been mostly things that I mentioned that affect how dynamic it is in other games, like PvP, RP, crafting/gathering and helping others.

EW had a great story and the discontent really began to begin there because beyond story, EW was empty.

I've played the game since ARR and people have always complained that there is "nothing to do" between patches. Ultimately, if you didn't get into some of the things I mentioned, then there's never been anything between patches due doing content more than once not being seen as "content".

What caused the complaints in EW wasn't less content, but rather the content not being of interest to people (like Island Sanctuary, dungeon revamps, Ocean Fishing route, tomestone relics) and the content requiring significantly less social interaction. I think it didn't help that Island Sanctuary is about the least fun life sim that you will ever play and they should have played a sim game and just copied it wholesale.

This is, despite what people say, an MMORPG and needs to keep players entertained between patchs, and even if the story is excellent, is it going to keep you online for 4 months once you finish it or are you going to play other games until the patch comes out?

I observed player behaviour on Steam a lot before I played this so much. People tend to play a new game (or its DLC) for a few days, then move onto the next game. I believe SE just designs the game to work with these trends - they know that many players will return for the patch DLC, then move onto another game after a few days, and cater the content to them, which is why it only lasts a few days for most people.

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

MMORPGs have always been like that. You have to create your own content between the patches, such as RP, PvP, crafting/gathering, helping newer players clear raids, grinds, completing all the achievements/side content..

You are agreeing with me more than I think you think. I live for this side content, seriously. I do enjoy consuming the story but its maybe 2%-3% of my playtime. As far as "creating your own content" I dont agree with the term. For RP, sure, but the other things you mentioned are developer created content. I don't enjoy RP, but i spend a TON of time in game collecting achievements. You can see that I do a TON of content -> https://www.lalachievements.com/char/35724775/

I really have very little to say about everything else you said, its pretty on-point. You're remarks on EW are spot on. "We reworked this dungeon, there are no rewards or achievements attached and you can enjoy using you level 25 rotation" is fairly unexciting. I got all of my tomestone relics in like 3 days for each step doing The Hunt.

While pretty much all MMOs expect you to do side content (or RP) between patches, they TRY to provide enough replayable content to keep people entertained or have weekly updates like osrs so that there is always something new.