The new player experience and how FFXIV fails as an MMO.

[Carin-Eri]

I'll admit, I'm confused.

I mean, what exactly drew some people to the game? It blatantly advertises itself as a story-driven experience - hell, this is what anyone curious about the game sees if/when they visit the FFXIV promotional website:


"Live your story". And that story is supposed to be a marathon, not a 100m sprint to endgame!

[Volgia]

I know people who started this game last year and they're not even into Shadowbringers. One of the strongest parts of this game is that it's kept most of it's old content relevant, so I don't know if I can agree with this take, the game kind of fails you once you're caught up with everything.

EDIT: My top five

Once you're caught up with the MSQ, the leveling experience is pretty terrible.
Gearing your characters for end-game content doesn't feel very good.
The game won't teach you how to play properly, making getting into extreme and savages feel hostile.
If you were looking to get into end-game hard content be prepared to ask yourself why you're starting on M9S and not on M1S, their hardcore content goes to the bucket too fast.
You end up wondering why is there nothing 'new' to do for months at a time.

There are tons of things new players can do because they're also kind of hidden from view. None of my friends who are currently progressing through the MSQ know what Eureka or Bozja even is.

[DPZ2]

The game won't teach you how to play properly, making getting into extreme and savages feel hostile.

I've read this sentiment for many years. I am puzzled, however, when it is applied to MMORPG genre games.

Which MMORPG genre games actually "teach you how to play properly"? It wasn't ESO. It wasn't WoW. It wasn't Rift. It wasn't Wildstar. It wasn't Everquest. It wasn't Runescape, or Albion, or ...

Please, someone, provide the names of MMORPG genre games that teach "how to raid" with any level of detail.

Thanks.

[Kohashi]

I've read this sentiment for many years. I am puzzled, however, when it is applied to MMORPG genre games.

Which MMORPG genre games actually "teach you how to play properly"? It wasn't ESO. It wasn't WoW. It wasn't Rift. It wasn't Wildstar. It wasn't Everquest. It wasn't Runescape, or Albion, or ...

Please, someone, provide the names of MMORPG genre games that teach "how to raid" with any level of detail.

Thanks.

TERA and Blade and Soul provided instances where you could practice not only your rotation but also practice specific mechanics of a particular boss.

Blade and Soul: Hongmoon Training room where you had training for your class (beginner, intermediate, advanced) + all Heroic + raid fights
TERA: Training Grounds

However, both Tera and BnS were extremely fast-paced and unforgiving in terms of mistakes, especially BnS, which, to make matters even worse, did not have the Holy Trinity either. If you failed to position yourself and failed to iframe.. GG no RE.

[Volgia]

I've read this sentiment for many years. I am puzzled, however, when it is applied to MMORPG genre games.

Which MMORPG genre games actually "teach you how to play properly"? It wasn't ESO. It wasn't WoW. It wasn't Rift. It wasn't Wildstar. It wasn't Everquest. It wasn't Runescape, or Albion, or ...

Please, someone, provide the names of MMORPG genre games that teach "how to raid" with any level of detail.

Thanks.

I played WoW and GW2. The difficulty curve between dungeons > Heroic dungeons > raids wasn't as steep as FFXIV. In FFXIV I didn't know I was doing sub-par damage, it was not until a raider friend put me through a DPS meter (which is again against ToS) that I realized I wasn't playing right. I had no idea about Sky, Stone and Sea either, this is when I was brand new mind you.

The divide between when I played the game normally to when I was raiding felt like I was playing a whole different game. Rotations? Buff alignment? Potions? OGCD management? Healer DPS? (and back then there was Cleric stance).

If you go to Sky, Stone and Sea without knowing your rotation you will not kill the dummy. But nothing exactly tells you what you are doing wrong, and there are no in-game tools you can use to improve your gameplay.

[Mawlzy]

I played WoW and GW2. The difficulty curve between dungeons > Heroic dungeons > raids wasn't as steep as FFXIV. In FFXIV I didn't know I was doing sub-par damage, it was not until a raider friend put me through a DPS meter (which is again against ToS) that I realized I wasn't playing right. I had no idea about Sky, Stone and Sea either, this is when I was brand new mind you.

The divide between when I played the game normally to when I was raiding felt like I was playing a whole different game. Rotations? Buff alignment? Potions? OGCD management? Healer DPS? (and back then there was Cleric stance).

If you go to Sky, Stone and Sea without knowing your rotation you will not kill the dummy. But nothing exactly tells you what you are doing wrong, and there are no in-game tools you can use to improve your gameplay.

This is a very perceptive comment. I'd even suggest that when those who play the game normally stumble into discussions about buff alignment and oGCD management, they don't recognize the game being described as the one they are playing.

Part of the interplayer friction we see is that those who have discovered this aspect of the game feel those that continue to play the game normally should learn these concepts and habits.

But why? What is so terrible about playing the game normally? It sounds very... normal. At the very least, what this suggests is that there are two legitimate ways of playing the game. The normal one and the raid-centric one.

[BigCheez]

This is a very perceptive comment. I'd even suggest that when those who play the game normally stumble into discussions about buff alignment and oGCD management, they don't recognize the game being described as the one they are playing.

Part of the interplayer friction we see is that those who have discovered this aspect of the game feel those that continue to play the game normally should learn these concepts and habits.

But why? What is so terrible about playing the game normally? It sounds very... normal. At the very least, what this suggests is that there are two legitimate ways of playing the game. The normal one and the raid-centric one.

The issue is the implications of playing your job incorrectly being normal.

We can't have normal mode content that requires players to actively participate because the majority of the playerbase don't actually have any idea how the game works. And the majority of the playerbase have no idea how the game works because the game doesn't do anything to teach them, or even incentivise figuring it out or using external resources to learn for themselves.

No damage to heal. No mitigation required. No DPS checks. No dispellable debuffs. No interrupts. No stuns. No CC. The game never requires you to do anything except not stand in the orange. The devs have done everything they can to ensure that failure is near impossible.

The game is stuck in a vicious cycle of not being able to have engaging content because the playerbase isn't good enough at the game, and players knowing nothing about the game because the content doesn't require them to learn anything about the game. It makes it very boring for people who do know how to play the game and see all the wasted potential.

[Mawlzy]

The issue is the implications of playing your job incorrectly being normal.

We can't have normal mode content that requires players to actively participate because the majority of the playerbase don't actually have any idea how the game works. And the majority of the playerbase have no idea how the game works because the game doesn't do anything to teach them, or even incentivise figuring it out or using external resources to learn for themselves.

No damage to heal. No mitigation required. No DPS checks. No dispellable debuffs. No interrupts. No stuns. No CC. The game never requires you to do anything except not stand in the orange. The devs have done everything they can to ensure that failure is near impossible.

The game is stuck in a vicious cycle of not being able to have engaging content because the playerbase isn't good enough at the game, and players knowing nothing about the game because the content doesn't require them to learn anything about the game. It makes it very boring for people who do know how to play the game and see all the wasted potential.

I see that as two irreconcilable but legitimate playstyles, hence why I advocate a dual-track approach. Learning and implementing a rigid rotation is, for many, extremely boring.

It's the case in any MMO I can think of that those who want to push their limits and engage in high-end PvE will naturally gravitate towards external sources. Like even in CCGs it's rare for the game to tell you how to optimize your deck, so everyone goes to Icy Veins.

[Kohashi]

The issue is the implications of playing your job incorrectly being normal.

We can't have normal mode content that requires players to actively participate because the majority of the playerbase don't actually have any idea how the game works. And the majority of the playerbase have no idea how the game works because the game doesn't do anything to teach them, or even incentivise figuring it out or using external resources to learn for themselves.

No damage to heal. No mitigation required. No DPS checks. No dispellable debuffs. No interrupts. No stuns. No CC. The game never requires you to do anything except not stand in the orange. The devs have done everything they can to ensure that failure is near impossible.

The game is stuck in a vicious cycle of not being able to have engaging content because the playerbase isn't good enough at the game, and players knowing nothing about the game because the content doesn't require them to learn anything about the game. It makes it very boring for people who do know how to play the game and see all the wasted potential.

While the difference between somebody who engages with high-end content and someone who does not is like night and day, I do have to say I do appreciate, in a way, the simplistic nature of the normal content.

In my opinion, it all comes down to the person. One who seeks to improve will always actively search for information and will never need a game/somebody to babysit them. The same applies in day-to-day life.

At the end of the day is not the game that should push you to improve; you have to have the desire to push forward. That's why some people are so resistant to advice, because they don't care about playing the game optimally, and that's fine. It's completly OK to suck at the game and focus on the social aspect.

[Altina_Orion]

I'll admit, I'm confused.

I mean, what exactly drew some people to the game? It blatantly advertises itself as a story-driven experience - hell, this is what anyone curious about the game sees if/when they visit the FFXIV promotional website:


"Live your story". And that story is supposed to be a marathon, not a 100m sprint to endgame!

Its not what drove me or many other ShB players to the game. For me, it was looking for an MMO experience and for many others it was looking for a WoW replacement. The game found success in ShB in part to the story but also in part looking for brighter shores.

You have to realize, the story may bring people into the game, but its very unlikely to keep people subscribed. Once you catch up, its a few hours of content every few months and sometimes its a major miss. What they expect you to do in-between the MSQ matters.