Thread: Please Share Updates on 8.0 Job Design

Originally Posted by Volgia

You're fighting a losing battle there, the game is never gonna be like it used to be. There are Shadowbringer, Endwalker and Dawntrail generation of players who are used to everything being dumbed down. You bring it back to HW/SB levels and then the massive FFXIV decline will really start happening.

They crossed the south bank of the Rubicon on Shadowbringers when they decided to butcher everything down the way they did.

Your conclusion is faulty i find, for a couple of simple reasons:

1. Todays class gameplay is something even the producer of the game considers a mistake as per his public statements
2. some people playing the game back then did not care for not playing optimally anyhow, they may not even notice anything changing
3. raiders will survive, I heard they like the challenge
4. There are also people that joined in ShB, EW and DT that are criticizing the boring class gameplay as well

and most importantly:

5. fun and engaging (do not read as: complex or difficult) jobs can elevate even the most boring fights, because they are the lens through which we experience battle content. Yoshi-P claims he falls asleep running normal dungeons, and that is not an experience you want your customers to have.


Also, who says I am fighting a battle? This is the official feedback channel for the game, I am a paying customer, this is the voice I have. Whether CS3 listens to me or not, or whether people agree with me or not is no skin off my back.

Originally Posted by Volgia

You're fighting a losing battle there, the game is never gonna be like it used to be. There are Shadowbringer, Endwalker and Dawntrail generation of players who are used to everything being dumbed down. You bring it back to HW/SB levels and then the massive FFXIV decline will really start happening.

They crossed the south bank of the Rubicon on Shadowbringers when they decided to butcher everything down the way they did.

A little late to this response, but

1) WoW did a lot of simplification. Then they went back to more complicated/unique designed, and everyone preferred it that way.
2) We have at least 4 jobs a role. You can make 1 hard, 2 in the middle, and keep one dumb. You don't need to go to 10/10 difficulty for every job.

Edit ->

This is the same issue I saw in the early healerstrike thread. Basically 2 groups formed -> 1) we want more engaging gameplay for x reason , and 2) I dont want healers to be harder for x reason

Its like you had to be on one side or the other. Guys, we have 4 of them. You can make at least 1 of them satisfy the first group.
I know im way oversimplifying the healer thread, but it's not all or nothing. We can have a healer do more than glare spam, and have another only glare spam.

Originally Posted by Gyson

Yes, I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment if they think there will be significant changes. So many encounters have been designed with the more simplified versions of our class design, which is why there is more emphasis on movement, reaction, and paying attention to what the boss is doing instead of focusing on your hotbar. There are probably a few Bards crying as they read this, and I feel for them. The point is, if they dramatically change the designs of our classes then they will need to go back and redesign countless encounters. That is just not going to happen.

I can't speak for others, but me personally... My expectations are very low. I've already been gone. I'm just putting in a last ditch effort to share my feedback after Yoshi P promised to better listen to player feedback, but I'm hesitant to believe that sentiment is genuine. But I don't agree that fun, healthy, and unique job design is at odds with the current encounter design or that fixing the atrocious state of job design requires reworking years of encounter designs. How can you possibly know if any particular set of changes to the job roster will or won't function with the current encounter design? We have no frame of reference for what such a set of jobs could even look like other than at best looking back at Stormblood, and jobs in Stormblood were not so complex that a player today couldn't navigate any of them through whatever dungeons are currently in expert roulette or Savage even.

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I can't speak for others, but me personally... My expectations are very low. I've already been gone. I'm just putting in a last ditch effort to share my feedback after Yoshi P promised to better listen to player feedback, but I'm hesitant to believe that sentiment is genuine. But I don't agree that fun, healthy, and unique job design is at odds with the current encounter design or that fixing the atrocious state of job design requires reworking years of encounter designs. How can you possibly know if any particular set of changes to the job roster will or won't function with the current encounter design? We have no frame of reference for what such a set of jobs could even look like other than at best looking back at Stormblood, and jobs in Stormblood were not so complex that a player today couldn't navigate any of them through whatever dungeons are currently in expert roulette or Savage even.

My personal observation has been that earlier content focused more on tactics and respecting mechanics, and later content focuses more on mobility, dexterity, and awareness. The latter works better with more simplified rotations and combat (what we have now), while the former allows players more opportunity to babysit their UI and take advantage of procs and situational skills (what we used to have/what Bards largely still have relative to other classes).

Think about the style of boss fights in, say, World of Darkness back in the day compared to today's Jeuno: The First Walk. In the former we had people needing to focus on specific tasks, mechanics that would wipe the raid if not respected, etc. Today we have dodge, memorize and dodge, run run run dodge.

At any rate, I don't believe you can radically change every job and then just believe it'll all mesh well with all the content without running into problems. Much of that content has been balanced under the current class design.

Originally Posted by Saraide

We're gonna get one more ogcd burst finisher on all jobs and healer dots will be extended to 2 minutes so it's easier to keep them running. Please look forward to it

This, and your favourite ability will be removed.