@Casuals , do you think the message has gotten through?

[Eastwall]

Level 1: "I will stay subbed, grumble about the content, but still do the content."
Level 2: "I will stay subbed but I won't do the content."
Level 3: "I will unsub and lose my house."
Level 4: "I will unsub, lose my house, and then make a free trial account, I will still exist and play, yet they can't get a cent out of me."

Very Based

[AmiableApkallu]

Certainly not saying the current situation is perfect, but for the most part the jobs that are getting targeted with CC (tank/melee) are the ones that have the best resources to counter.

But to me the big difference is that vast variety of situations you find in PvP. Each fight is different and thus has repeatability. The only repeatability in PvE is trying again when you fail.

Also worth noting, given the ongoing dissatisfaction with healers in PvE, that healers in PvP are some of the most interesting and important jobs to play.

lol. I take WHM into PvP. I guess by your own admission, I don't actually have the best resources to counter crowd control? But ignoring that, what exactly are my counters?

Furthermore, if I'm playing such an important job/role, then that probably explains why it feels like the other team is throwing all their crowd control at me.

[Mawlzy]

lol. I take WHM into PvP. I guess by your own admission, I don't actually have the best resources to counter crowd control? But ignoring that, what exactly are my counters?

Furthermore, if I'm playing such an important job/role, then that probably explains why it feels like the other team is throwing all their crowd control at me.

Your primary resource/counter is range.

Most of your dangerous opponents in FL are using target nearest rather than tab. A WHM should never be the nearest to the front line.

But yeah AST and WHM will attract counter-measures if they get too close because they are such powerful jobs in the current meta.

[Lorika]

lol. I take WHM into PvP. I guess by your own admission, I don't actually have the best resources to counter crowd control? But ignoring that, what exactly are my counters?

Furthermore, if I'm playing such an important job/role, then that probably explains why it feels like the other team is throwing all their crowd control at me.

Aquaveil
Creates a barrier around self or target party member that absorbs damage equivalent to a heal of 8,000 potency.
Duration: 10s
Additional Effect: Nullifies one status affliction that can be removed by Purify
Barrier potency is doubled when successfully nullifying a status affliction.

It's work really well on a lot of status effects (personally i use it when i'm inflicted with heavy)
Don't also forget Mirace of Nature (Aka Kappa ) which is a very good CC (It also make the target lose 2500 MP, which is huge)
And Afflatus Purgation is still one of the best LB (20k damages to all ennemis in a straight line + a stun + and HP regen for all the ally)
Even Seraph Strike (the Gap Closer) is one of the best since it give a 8% mit to all the ally + instant Cure II (one of the best heal in PvP) + 3 Glave IV (which are instant)

WHM is still one of the best job in PvP.

[ChrysOCE]

lol. I take WHM into PvP. I guess by your own admission, I don't actually have the best resources to counter crowd control? But ignoring that, what exactly are my counters?

Furthermore, if I'm playing such an important job/role, then that probably explains why it feels like the other team is throwing all their crowd control at me.

Miracle of Nature and your limit break are very powerful for disrupting attacks. But I do tend to play a little closer, dipping in and out of the front line.

[BunnyBrat]

I don't think so. They still haven't fixed graphical issues that has existed since dawntrail's release. And it's weird since some issues with miqote were immediately addressed from the start. But absolutely nothing was done to fix viera mouth corners or even the fact that the race hairs no longer fit properly. That should have been fixed from the start.

[AmiableApkallu]

Your primary resource/counter is range.

Most of your dangerous opponents in FL...

Who said I was talking about FL? That's not the only PvP mode...

Also, this quaint notion of "range"... yes, I can spend all my time running away from every one who's trying to chase me down, but then I'll be doing nothing useful while getting killed anyway.

Aquaveil
Creates a barrier around self or target party member that absorbs damage equivalent to a heal of 8,000 potency.
Duration: 10s
Additional Effect: Nullifies one status affliction that can be removed by Purify
Barrier potency is doubled when successfully nullifying a status affliction.

Unless, of course, I used it on someone else in the party... because, you know, healer, maybe that's what a healer ought to be doing? Maybe there was someone in the thick-of-combat who looked like they needed an assist right then and there?

Don't also forget Miracle of Nature (Aka Kappa ) which is a very good CC

Unless, of course, the player that "needs" CC isn't actually in range, or spent a split second to peak out from behind a wall before hiding again...

It's all good and well to list out theoretical possibilities, but actual practice and combat are very different. And thus far, no one's mentioned anything useful and actionable that couldn't have been gleaned from the official job guides.

But then, that's what makes PvP "interesting", yah? The fact that it's so varied that you can't reduce explanations down to a few pithy phrases.

But none of this gets at my original point:

[G]oing back to Strayborough, the adds just need a little orange AoE marker in front of them indicating how far they'll lunge, because I feel like that's what the encounter design is going for and not communicating effectively.

There is plenty of PvE content that prevents you from acting as you desire, and no one complains about any of that... aside from Strayborough... because all of those other instances make it clear what you have to do to avoid a sad fate, at least in retrospect.

[enthauptet]

It's still not casual friendly. Yes, with proper time and spurts given, you can slowly progress. I know. It is still very manipulative to frame your post in a way with harder content with time commitments. This is an MMO, Deep Dungeons are a rogue lite in an MMO. The easy floors are casual friendly, even some of the early challenge floors, I am not debating that.

I implore you, take your time on floorset 191-200 and tell me if you complete it in time.... Casually.... No rush, kill all enemies, open all chests. All guides advise against this even in a full party, again, how is that casual friendly? You're making examples with completely different content in something that is being debated as considered casual, maybe pick some of the stupid grinds crafting has if you wanted to pick something that took time, not difficult content as you did

Because as tone dead as your original statement was, I was saying the content inside these dungeons aren't difficult, it's a rogue lite, what makes it "difficult" is when RNG is not on your side and wipes your party. I have been with plenty of people who won't touch it because of that factor. You could be the best parser with amazing reflexes and still die to something stupid, even on the earlier floors. Many groups fell apart not because of the difficulty, but because of strings of bad luck wiping us on the higher floors.

Edit: and again, progression in those criterion dungeons is completely different than seeing a new boss on floor 80 of HoH and learning or needing to research said previous guides I'm here to play a game I'll try and fail and restart. I'm fine with that. Ask anyone you consider casual if restarting from floor 1 and going back to floor 80 is worth it (even in easy content, remember this would be 7 duties in) when you barely got any rewards so far? How long does it normally take after a failed prog attempt in dungeons, raids, etc?

At least be genuine and don't call me tone deaf when you are moving goalposts. I don't have anything to add to this since it's going nowhere.

[TheGrimace]

Based on what I've seen this past year, CS3 has absolutely no idea how to proceed. Do better, guys.

[Mawlzy]

Who said I was talking about FL? That's not the only PvP mode...

Also, this quaint notion of "range"... yes, I can spend all my time running away from every one who's trying to chase me down, but then I'll be doing nothing useful while getting killed anyway.

You didn't specify, hence I shared what I know of FL since it's the mode where I have some expertise.

Range doesn't mean running away, it means positioning yourself relative to your tank/melee such that you can do your job as they do theirs.