@Casuals , do you think the message has gotten through?

[Gurgeh]

@Casuals
(people who want to do challenging content, but don't like lots of guides, don't like waiting 45 minutes for PFs fill and then collapse after 2nd pull, don't like progpoint threats, don't like scheduling, don't like the anti-ToS stuff that always goes with discords.)

Do you think the message has gotten through?

I was really impressed with the live letter because of the bravery it took. It was going to be a double edged sword, and it has been. But the way to fix that problem is with the game, not by avoiding the issue and sweeping it under the carpet, not with a service game.

However: when I saw the announcement of delay of Ultimate, and all the bowing and the clear apologising, and the kowtowing, that came with that, even though they were promising it would still be coming (before 8.x)...
When I compare that with the brief covering of lack of FT 'normal' got, I realised I felt a little sick as I suddenly spotted the difference...
At first I interpreted Yoshi's demeanour RE FT normal as he was 'not happy' that there wasn't one but didn't want to comment, but then I realised, I don't think there was an apology?
They really do offer apologies when they 'are' sorry.
I take that as they didn't apologise becuase they still don't see the problem, they are just giving in. (this time)
I now interpret it, that I don't think they do agree there was a problem just providing FT designed and tuned to keep Ultimate raiders feeling it was worth their attempt, but rather that they will be conceding, condescending even, to provide an OC normal, if people really insist.

This I think doesn't bode well, for them turning the game around at all for the players that are leaving (and will be leaving once they are caught up).

That I think, I'm afraid means, that I can't hope for much from 8.x.
As many have now said. 8.x doesn't need to be good, it needs to be "knocking it out of the park" all the way from 8.0, to 8.1.x . And it needs to be for the people who are not happy, that's not the high end players.
That requires the greatest of passion from inside. I don't see how that passion can be there if they still don't think they owe a far greater apology for FT that for the mere delaying of the next ultimate.

Well done for the live letter I supposed. But the reason we didn't get FT normal, is because savage did get Chaotic, savage will be getting DDlvl100+ (and it won't be Ex difficulty, and there is a big difference)
An Ex difficulty dungeon (because it only has 4 people) should not need strategy videos. It especially should not need progpoints that the community will attack each other over because of disagreements over polish-practice vs mastery not having to suffer each other.

(Savage players please just stay out of it. Please don't argue we just need to enjoy something we don't, or should start playing games for reasons other than fun, like you. Your happy. Your not leaving. It's not of consequence to the game what you think, unless your argument is that the latest bancho figures are jut fine, which many of you do think, we already know so you don't need to repeat that.)

I do especially want to hear if many casual players do take the live letter otherwise, and read between the lines that CB3 agree they do want to be providing more midcore (accessible but still where playing well matters).

[Nero-Voidstails]

sadly I have no hope because as long as ultimate/savage are the focus the game jobs and combat will never improve

[Altina_Orion]

sadly I have no hope because as long as ultimate/savage are the focus the game jobs and combat will never improve

How is savage/ultimate any more "the focus" than it was 8 years ago in Strormblood or Shadowbringers when casual were happy?

[Kaurhz]

How is savage/ultimate any more "the focus" than it was 8 years ago in Strormblood or Shadowbringers when casual were happy?

I don't think the focus has changed, but many of the games subsystems are very hollow and soulless since Stormblood, tbh...

Like, even many of the side activities like crafting and gathering felt satisfying to engage with, they were rewarding... These days, it's just a shallow experience between all the streamlining, and gutting of abilities.... There is a point when you can QoL the life out of some parts of the game, and this is one of the biggest changes between Stormblood and now.

[Altina_Orion]

I don't think the focus has changed, but many of the games subsystems are very hollow and soulless since Stormblood, tbh...

Like, even many of the side activities like crafting and gathering felt satisfying to engage with, they were rewarding... These days, it's just a shallow experience between all the streamlining, and gutting of abilities.... There is a point when you can QoL the life out of some parts of the game, and this is one of the biggest changes between Stormblood and now.

I'm totally on board, but this doesn't have to come at the expense of savage/ulti level content. Realistically, SE needs to simply invest more into the game and take more risks. This game, even with its playerbase HALVED since ShB, still is VERY VERY profitable for the company.

[Kaurhz]

I'm totally on board, but this doesn't have to come at the expense of savage/ulti level content. Realistically, SE needs to simply invest more into the game and take more risks. This game, even with its playerbase HALVED since ShB, still is VERY VERY profitable for the company.

I don't think it should, and I don't think it has to... Like.. I don't think it's practical to go that path where they need to take away x to give y. The game just needs to have a little self-respect and realize that beyond a certain point they aren't really catering to anyone, or anything, aside from this misbegotten idea of all-or-nothing.. Like, they try so hard to address that 1 vague issue, and in doing so... Nothing gets addressed. aka... Endwalker and this expansion.

With how lifeless they've made most of the game, they've just created this dilemma where it's basically... raid or nothing, if you want to actually find yourself even remotely immersed or engaged.

I remember long ago where I could spend hours upon hours, learning, and playing with abilities like Whistle While You Work, seeing how far I could stretch a recipe, whilst still keeping the control of the success of the recipe in my hands... These days it's just... Completely shallow, with a system placed on top of it, designed to try and mimic that experience, when really the content will only ever be as fun as the abilities provided.

[ovIm]

> do you think the message has gotten through?
no.

[Erzaa]

Nope. If you don't raid, you don't exist to them.

[dspguy]

Nope. If you don't raid, you don't exist to them.

Which is a shame because the playerbase are mostly non-raiders. I'd almost rather they switch things up. Make the raid balanced jobs more like BLU - "content restricted." And give us something new for the rest of the game.

[Shurrikhan]

Nope. If you don't raid, you don't exist to them.

I mean, I would raid (or, on more characters) if I could just matchmake into a party within a chosen tolerance of my own progress (per frequent checkpoints based on having personally survived through a given mechanic at least a couple times). I.e., if HEDF actually worked was intended and saw real use.