Proposal: Rebalance FFXIV Around Living Zones and Scalable Challenge

[Mawlzy]

Just because you are a casual doesn't mean you represent all casuals. This content is truly clearable by anyone. If you like story-mode content and don't like any friction, then you don't have to participate. The content may not be designed for you.

The point I am making is that there is a massive population of players who have no interest in any form of raiding. In NA/EU it may be a majority.

You don't "get you feet wet" if you hate swimming.

Now I appreciate that EX's may well be dull for those who want harder content, but trying to deny that DT content has skewed towards raiders is simply burying your head in the sand.

The good news for you is that the number of non-raiders is dropping as a direct result of these content choices made by SE. Since the trend seems guaranteed to continue into 8.0, you won't be troubled by them and their requests for something to do. There won't be any left.

[AvoSturmfaust]

No they are not. - A Casual Player

Dont get me wrong but do you not think that Singleplayer Games are more suited for you then?

I mean i can understand if someone doesnt want to do Savage/Ultimates, im fully fine with it, but now even Extremes? Why are you playing a MMORPG which is based on Endgamecontent like all MMOs then? Im really curious, i dont wanna blame you or anything dont get me wrong im straight up just curious

[YovelaLindswood]

For every EX/Savage/Criterion There is a normal trial, normal raid, and a variant. A lot of these are also "one-and-done" content for raiders.

Also, EX/Unreal is HARDLY raider content. Most EXs can be done in one to two sessions in party finder. These are for casual players to get their toes dipped into some harder content. High end raiders are generally not entertained by these. But on a patch by patch basis, 7.0 came with 4 savages and nothing else. 4 savages for 4 months. Groups were done with there in two weeks and then recleared for an hour a week. The ultimate has a bit more longevity, but not much incentive for reclaring (7.1). Chaotic and Ulti were the only two pieces of raider content in 7.1. 7.2, we have forked which required a LOT of prep and isnt even for most raiders, but for hardcore field-ops enthusiasts. And then 4 more savages. For 8 months this time since there is very little to challenge raiders in 7.3. Consider that.

Really what do you think raiders are doing now? Reclears on tuesdays and then nothing.

I agree with pretty much everything else you said.

The fundamental problem with xiv content is fight design. Because going from non one shot body checks to one shot body checks is the only punishment mechanic they use there's really no midcore content in the game. WoW scaling works because for 99% of mechs its a damage modification that just goes up with scale but xiv just gives you 999,999 damage because you were a pixel off the safe area. I would like to see mythics in xiv or more scales of raids for a gradual increase in mechanics and difficulty like wow but given how two versions of forked tower was apparently too expensive i'm not holding my breath.

[Altina_Orion]

The fundamental problem with xiv content is fight design. Because going from non one shot body checks to one shot body checks is the only punishment mechanic they use there's really no midcore content in the game. WoW scaling works because for 99% of mechs its a damage modification that just goes up with scale but xiv just gives you 999,999 damage because you were a pixel off the safe area. I would like to see mythics in xiv or more scales of raids for a gradual increase in mechanics and difficulty like wow but given how two versions of forked tower was apparently too expensive i'm not holding my breath.

Oh for sure, i mean i'm not saying that this will happen, but we do need something that's somehow scalable in difficulty for more hardcore players to keep themselves entertained and something that is fun and longform from the beginning for more casual players.

[Jeeqbit]

EX/Unreal is HARDLY raider content. Most EXs can be done in one to two sessions in party finder.

Extremes are not meant to be done in one-two sessions. They are meant to be farmed 99 times. The entire reason they are easier than Savage, in my opinion, is because they are meant to be farmed, whereas Savage is done once a week therefore it's designed for "clutch clears" (depending on the party obviously).

I get a lot of people don't consider things like the mount or weapons as "rewards they care about", but many other players do. And either way it's clearly their intention or they wouldn't add a mount to it - I've seen them say many years ago that this is how they get people to do content in most cases. It likely stems from Yoshi-P's observation in old MMOs where people would be drawn to get the latest mounts.

These are for casual players to get their toes dipped into some harder content.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. A very high percent of players are afraid to even try Extremes, or don't want to deal with it. I agree that they can be done casually and are really only a little tougher than CEs (1-2 vulns maybe rather than 4) except they wipe the whole party if a few key mechanics are done wrong. So it's kind of a case of SE not helping casual players overcome their anxiety somehow, such as with a little talking companion in the corner that reassures them and guides them to try it out, getting their toes wet with a guildhest-like version of Extremes to build their confidence, joining as a spectator, etc.

High end raiders are generally not entertained by these.

I disagree but it depends on the person. You see, not all High-End duties have to be the same difficulty for them to be entertaining. For example, a person may prog savage, then take a break to do something a little less stressful (but still engaging) and that can be extremes.

I know many savage raiders view extremes as a joke. But quite equally, I have met plenty of people in extreme trials who will socialize a lot and discuss their savage prog and say what floor/mechanic they're up to, so they are obviously using extremes as a way to add variety to what they're doing and the ones I've met in them seem to enjoy them a lot.

Really what do you think raiders are doing now? Reclears on tuesdays and then nothing.

It really depends on the person. There are many raiders that will also engage with the more midcore or casual content between their raiding. And this is one of the reasons the midcore and casual content needs to be good, otherwise they will actually feel they can only raidlog.

As I mentioned, many raiders will mix it up by doing extremes as well, but if the dungeons had a mythic-like system that would be another thing for them to shake it up. Sure it's not likely to be as hard as Savage, but it's probably going to keep them engaged more than a beast tribe or Island Sanctuary would. So things like Field Operations and varying difficulties or mechanics in dungeons are winning all sides of the playerbase, be they raiders or just people that want normal content to be not be the same every day.

[Altina_Orion]

Jeeqbit,

Yeah I agree with all of this. In terms of ex/unreal, i understand that some people have no interest in engaging with this. That's totally fine, i'm just trying to point out that the EX content isn't designed with savage/ultimate raiders in mind. They may engage in it, but it's designed as an in-between of normal and savage. Something maybe a casual player looking for more of a challenge could engage or or something for a raider to step down to and turn their brain off a bit.

[Jeeqbit]

i'm just trying to point out that the EX content isn't designed with savage/ultimate raiders in mind.

It actually is designed for Savage raiders and has a function intended specifically for them: a higher item level weapon than the one they start with. If they are still struggling to progress through Savage by the odd-numbered patch, they can get an even higher item level weapon (better than the non-augmented tomestone weapon) from the second Extreme of the tier.

This was even stated regularly by Yoshi-P in many broadcasts: that the weapon from those Extreme trials was meant to help you progress Savage. This was especially the case before we had crafted weapons (which did not used to be a thing in Heavensward). What happened was that, in practice, many raiders viewed Extremes as a joke even then. But technically, that is meant to be their actual function.

[Raikai]

Savage is a long-term prog for many people (sorry week1 clearers, but you don't represent everyone, look at how many weeks people complained about their P8S, P10S or M6S prog) and then there's reclears.

There's one thing that bothers me a lot in the Savage prog - you do it one floor at a time, repeating the same fight over and over until the mechanics stick. As a PF raider (for scheduling issues I couldn't ever get into statics), it is a long term investment yeah, but it also burns me out really fast doing the same thing. I feel that it could be much better if we had the opportunity of joining previous floor's reclear parties without compromising their loot tables, because I could do other fights just for fun as some sort of palate cleanser or just to get better at my job's full potential, which is something that is kinda stressful to do with clear parties that don't care for loot tables.

[Chasingstars]

Probably last post from me, at least for tonight, but while still brainstorming based on your suggestions, what about including invisible traps? Like either the landmines from DSR and FTB or maybe the traps from Deep Dungeons? Or maybe both? Something that gives randomization to an otherwise fixed layout to the dungeons and the requiredness to have way to find traps such as with lost action lost perception. Of maybe mixing deep dungeons with normal dungeons. On normal difficulty, there is no limit to the number of times to be rezzed. But on higher difficulties there is a rez limit and hardest difficulty its a rez limit of 1 like, similar to criterion dungeons. As, like, if we are mixing and matching content with how an expansion is designed, why not extend that even deeper beyond just field ops? What if we merge more aspects of side content with the fundamental design of an expansion? Maybe to take another element from forked tower, harmless element, is locked doors, where parts of dungeon are locked and contain unique treasure/rewards/enemies for players.

Also maybe dungeon and trial bosses could also be secretly randomized for its "dance" based on which one is secretly chosen on say a pool of 5 different "dances". Same boss for all players, yet each time its done for the first time for a player or players, the order of attacks it does is different, creating a fresh experience that keeps the players guessing, even ones who already completed it before.

All done to greatly shake up outdoor content, story, dungeons, trials, and relics.

Someone might ask "But then what is the content for later patches if your baking deep dungeons and field operations into the expansion?" To which I have idea. What if, hear me out, what if we just made more dungeons? More battle content for players to do. Like you know Smileton or Stigma Dreamscape or Tender Valley or Strayborough Deadwalk? How they are not part of the MSQ? What if did more content that is that. Optional dungeons for the players to do.

[Raim]

I have been saying this since Eureka. I wish they would go in and overhaul Fates. Make all the older fates have newer, more engaging mechanics. Give all Fates from previous expansions bicolor gemstones. Give way more turn in rewards for gemstones like the hunt currencies have. And if you have trouble getting enough players together, consider a cycling "zone of the day" that gives 2x gemstones and maybe awards tomestones too. That would get people running Fates again.