Please do not streamline deep dungeons

[ThurinTurambar]

I feel like generally if they adjusted some hp distribution and maybe mob damage from EO it would be sorta fine?
Late telegraphs on lethal aoes are also not the best thing they came up with, but id take more animation telegraph like the crocodyle patrols raising up their arm for a cone etc.

What i would really like to see is some creativity, bigger attention on the exploration part:
-enviromental variables like acid puddles, maybe something akin to crystals in dzamael darkhold?
-multiple exits that could boost a chance of certain floor enchantments - for example you open red exit early but it has higher chance for gloom, but you have to take it cuz blue exit is blocked by tresure room.
-something like jump puzzle?
-more run defining items, something similar to phantom job maybe? You find a shard that unlocks a decently useful power that lasts longer?
-interesting rare spawns, something more engaging than dread beasts. Idk maybe once u find a fairy that gives you buff, but on other floor you are stalked by a dangerous elite mob?


I would not be opposed to streamlining the more technical aspecs. Stuff like sustaining potions and ways of accquireing them, aetherpool and grips etc.
The whole menu could be done better (why do i have to click 5 things to go in solo??) and the whole ordeal with save slots is tedious.

[Valence]

I feel like generally if they adjusted some hp distribution and maybe mob damage from EO it would be sorta fine?
Late telegraphs on lethal aoes are also not the best thing they came up with, but id take more animation telegraph like the crocodyle patrols raising up their arm for a cone etc.

What i would really like to see is some creativity, bigger attention on the exploration part:
-enviromental variables like acid puddles, maybe something akin to crystals in dzamael darkhold?
-multiple exits that could boost a chance of certain floor enchantments - for example you open red exit early but it has higher chance for gloom, but you have to take it cuz blue exit is blocked by tresure room.
-something like jump puzzle?
-more run defining items, something similar to phantom job maybe? You find a shard that unlocks a decently useful power that lasts longer?
-interesting rare spawns, something more engaging than dread beasts. Idk maybe once u find a fairy that gives you buff, but on other floor you are stalked by a dangerous elite mob?


I would not be opposed to streamlining the more technical aspecs. Stuff like sustaining potions and ways of accquireing them, aetherpool and grips etc.
The whole menu could be done better (why do i have to click 5 things to go in solo??) and the whole ordeal with save slots is tedious.

I'd like some of those features yes.

I'd also like some actual UI on their part even though XIV has always been stuck twenty years in the past when it comes to ergonomics. I'd like to have a bestiary, where every time you fight a new monster and see its moves, or try things against it, it unveils what abilities it has and what it does resist against (stuns, sleep etc, because it frankly feels like shit to have a wiki page open on the side to keep tabs on what monsters do). And not only you'd access the full version in said bestiary, you'd also have a small interface above the monster that shows those resists in real time, only showing "?" when it's the first time you meet the mob, but then displaying the actual resists or weaknesses (please introduce weaknesses SE) once you have actually prodded the mob with your abilities.

-> Example: first time you meet a chimera, you can only see multiple ? ? ? above it because you have no idea what it does. You start hitting the mob, try a sleep, it has no effect, and suddenly one of the ? turns into an icon that says sleep resistant (it also gets added to the bestiary). Chimera casts Dragon's Voice, it also gets added to the bestiary under the chimera entry. Suddenly you hit with interrupt, and it shows an interrupt icon under vulnerabilities, which idk, makes the stun last twice as long, or actually deals damage, or triggers a slow, idk.

[ThurinTurambar]

I'd like some of those features yes.

I'd also like some actual UI on their part even though XIV has always been stuck twenty years in the past when it comes to ergonomics. I'd like to have a bestiary, where every time you fight a new monster and see its moves, or try things against it, it unveils what abilities it has and what it does resist against (stuns, sleep etc, because it frankly feels like shit to have a wiki page open on the side to keep tabs on what monsters do). And not only you'd access the full version in said bestiary, you'd also have a small interface above the monster that shows those resists in real time, only showing "?" when it's the first time you meet the mob, but then displaying the actual resists or weaknesses (please introduce weaknesses SE) once you have actually prodded the mob with your abilities.

-> Example: first time you meet a chimera, you can only see multiple ? ? ? above it because you have no idea what it does. You start hitting the mob, try a sleep, it has no effect, and suddenly one of the ? turns into an icon that says sleep resistant (it also gets added to the bestiary). Chimera casts Dragon's Voice, it also gets added to the bestiary under the chimera entry. Suddenly you hit with interrupt, and it shows an interrupt icon under vulnerabilities, which idk, makes the stun last twice as long, or actually deals damage, or triggers a slow, idk.

tbh i love the bestiary idea, would be so nice to have the data in a neat ingame form and not rely on external websites when needing to check something. Would also incentivise you to play different jobs to 'collect them all', maybe with a little achievement for it. Could even have a neat title like "Biology Expert" or something similar.

[ThurinTurambar]

From what i see on lalachievements (i dont know how accurate is the site, but better than no data), about 4.2% of players got Aeturna mount and 8.5% got Juedi (mounts for clearing EO and HoH 4x times if you pick the accessories and not other rewards). 24.3% players cleared floor 100 of HoH, 12.9% cleared floor 100 of EO.
For comparison, ~24.2% cleared m4s once.

While its clear that EO has performed worse, for reasons i will address later, its still a large part of the community that has participated in the content (not to mention that its quite popular to do savage on alt characters for better loot opportunities, and people dont really play DDs on alts, do they)

Deep dungeons are a great investment for SE to keep alive, as it is 'ever-green' content, people return to it in times of content draught, when they're done with the tier of savage or whatever else.


Here are some my thoughts about why EO has underperformed compared to HoH (ignoring the time of release difference)
- poor balance of early floors, burning away the new people. Damage-sponge enemies with lethal abilities that early is just not the play (idea of more powerful avoidable patrols could work, but not all enemies)
- loot is simply subpar. Im talking strictly about the mount - how many people became interested in potd because of the amazing pegasus mount? The EO crab is not cute like the pegasus and is not goofy and funny like the dodo.
- The theme has already been explored with Crystal Tower and The Twinning.
- Overall too gloomy, even palace has more cheer on deep floors.

[Carighan]

Here are some my thoughts about why EO has underperformed compared to HoH (ignoring the time of release difference)
- poor balance of early floors, burning away the new people. Damage-sponge enemies with lethal abilities that early is just not the play (idea of more powerful avoidable patrols could work, but not all enemies)
- loot is simply subpar. Im talking strictly about the mount - how many people became interested in potd because of the amazing pegasus mount? The EO crab is not cute like the pegasus and is not goofy and funny like the dodo.
- The theme has already been explored with Crystal Tower and The Twinning.
- Overall too gloomy, even palace has more cheer on deep floors.

It also has a bit of the WiiU problem: It does not sound like a Deep Dungeon. Eureka XYZ are the zones of, well, Eureka. Coupled with being in a zone nobody ever visits again nowadays and why would they, people just utterly forget there are 3 DDs in this game. I'm not joking, you ask ingame, everyone knows about POTD and that it got a refresh in HoH, but players who have been in 1.0 failed at first chance to mention EO.

[Valence]

In my opinion the main reason why EO underperformed is because it's betraying the model and essence of PotD and HoH. It's trying to shoehorn the content into the current pve DDR bosses that we've had, where deep dungeons have never been about that. It's trying to be punishing with gotcha mechanics that just pushed people away.

[Shurrikhan]

"Streamline" be vague as hell, though.

For instance, there are a handful of things that could be considered "streamlining" that I nonetheless wouldn't mind:

• Less clunky pomander/etc. menus.
• Less of an output gap between low and high gear, leaving difficulty scaling to mechanics and thereby floor count (less reduction of challenge from gearing, with progress being more dependent instead on acquired knowledge and pattern recognition).
• More indication on the more unique and punishing of OHKO or near-OHKO mechanics from bosses.
• Slightly more indication (even if just through common patterns) of where traps would be.
• CC traps having their duration halved with each hit taken.
• Less mob HP.
• Slightly weaker mob auto-attacks.
• Small tunnels/runes at the end of long chains of rooms far separated from their last branch that teleport you back to where they forked.

[Raikai]

YP mentioned somewhere "We're happy with the DD model"... so I'm afraid the next one won't be mechanically distinct as many would have hoped for.

Maybe that's why they decided to go for "going horizontally" rather than vertical floors? Just to give the impression that the formula was shaken up.

I wanted to actually see different map designs rather than just the same map with square rooms next to each other.

Ditch pomanders for a completely new power system. (Ironically I think Phantom Jobs would be a fine system for a Deep Dungeon if they were a little more fleshed out)

[Mesarthim]

I think auto attacks are fine for orthos. HoH autos though were particularly bad in the upper floors. Of course this is coming from a solo perspective. I felt a lot safer as a tank in HoH but would rather go dps for orthos due to the extreme damage sponge hp.

I hated starting EO over because 1-30 is a slog.

[Router]

I think auto attacks are fine for orthos. HoH autos though were particularly bad in the upper floors. Of course this is coming from a solo perspective. I felt a lot safer as a tank in HoH but would rather go dps for orthos due to the extreme damage sponge hp.

I hated starting EO over because 1-30 is a slog.

I do feel like mobs in PotD and especially HoH hit too hard on the later floors, but regardless EO mobs didn't hit hard enough for me. I solo'd on SAM and basically never had to use pots (I think I used less than 10 overall?), which doesn't feel right for a challenge run. Part of that is SAM being tanky of course, but it's also a failure of the content when you don't feel pressured to use your resources on a solo run. I would like to see something between EO and PotD damage output, I think. Enough damage to make tank a reasonable choice instead of the optimal setup being DPS only.