New Player Etiquette

[klu]

They have to learn what mits to use and when. I mean you don't just dump everything on the first set of things you pull. You learn what to match together with what, like putting Nebula with HoC and then next set a Rampart with Reprisal and maybe an Arm's Length if they're particularly spicy. Also how to effectively use your invuln when pulling so you weave that in as normal mitigation and not just an oh-crap button.

And healers need to learn that throwing stones, lasers, and whatever else is *not* their primary job, they need to learn that they are *not* dps, and that if the tank dies it *is* your fault.

We can do this tit for tat thing all day. Im tired of dying because the healer wanted to fling a little stone.

[Kandraxx]

Mentor is a meme in this game. It's pretty much meant for japanese servers and etiquette. On western servers it's a name glamour that's about it.

[Gurgeh]

Respectfully, if you are tanking post lvl 50.. pull more and get the dungeon over with. Simple as. I can give leeway to tanks at 50 and below. Above that? Nah, pull more and keep up the pace.

This currently has 17 likes. By far the most.

Is there anyone here who thinks Chrys's main content that they care about is casual rouls rather than passing through it as a means to an end for high end?

It doesn't really matter though, because casuals being happy as opposed to fng off and playing another game, doesn't matter. Not even to other casual white-knights.

When it comes to things like 'this' I realise that it's not savage high end I'm mad at. Good for them in a certain way. Carry on, at least your acting to further your own interests. Your doing the minimum and then some to earn the right to have an enjoyable game.

I hope those white knights that are casuals genuinely are happy now and in the coming years, because if they start complaining now or later in the coming years, that would would be contemptible above all else.
You know who you are, and if the time comes make sure you keep quiet and just unsub. Don't start complaining to shut gate once the horse has not only bolted, but also finally run into traffic, panicked, fallen, and broken it's pelvis.

[TaleraRistain]

And healers need to learn that throwing stones, lasers, and whatever else is *not* their primary job, they need to learn that they are *not* dps, and that if the tank dies it *is* your fault.

We can do this tit for tat thing all day. Im tired of dying because the healer wanted to fling a little stone.

It is the responsibility of the entire party for a big pull to succeed. The tank needs to utilize their mitigations and understand how big of a pull they can handle. The healer needs to be able to heal and mitigate that level of damage. It's nice if the healer can also help with dps and it should be possible in a well-oiled group, but there are times when it's not possible. The dps need to be able to burn the mobs down quickly before the tank and healer run out of resources.

You have paladin in your bio and you don't understand that you do have responsibility as a tank? If you don't use mitigation at all and you pull everything in sight, you're probably gonna die with the healer out of resources and resorting to spamming basic heals just to keep you alive.

[ChrysOCE]

This currently has 17 likes. By far the most.

Is there anyone here who thinks Chrys's main content that they care about is casual rouls rather than passing through it as a means to an end for high end?

It doesn't really matter though, because casuals being happy as opposed to fng off and playing another game, doesn't matter. Not even to other casual white-knights.

When it comes to things like 'this' I realise that it's not savage high end I'm mad at. Good for them in a certain way. Carry on, at least your acting to further your own interests. Your doing the minimum and then some to earn the right to have an enjoyable game.

Actually, the content I engage with the most is PVP. That's my (misguided) passion in FFXIV.

But I don't see how it's high end or elitist to expect players who are lvl 70+ to know how to play their job/roles. I'll give learning players all the time they need but when does that end? What, you think level 100 players should still be able to say "I'm learning"? And if someone has tank anxiety still, in SHB/EW/DT content, maybe tanking (with other players) just isn't really for them?

[klu]

It is the responsibility of the entire party for a big pull to succeed. The tank needs to utilize their mitigations and understand how big of a pull they can handle. The healer needs to be able to heal and mitigate that level of damage. It's nice if the healer can also help with dps and it should be possible in a well-oiled group, but there are times when it's not possible. The dps need to be able to burn the mobs down quickly before the tank and healer run out of resources.

You have paladin in your bio and you don't understand that you do have responsibility as a tank? If you don't use mitigation at all and you pull everything in sight, you're probably gonna die with the healer out of resources and resorting to spamming basic heals just to keep you alive.

Where did I say that tanks shouldn't use mitigation?

When did I say the tanks *should* pull wall to wall?

[Mawlzy]

Actually, the content I engage with the most is PVP. That's my (misguided) passion in FFXIV.

But I don't see how it's high end or elitist to expect players who are lvl 70+ to know how to play their job/roles. I'll give learning players all the time they need but when does that end? What, you think level 100 players should still be able to say "I'm learning"? And if someone has tank anxiety still, in SHB/EW/DT content, maybe tanking (with other players) just isn't really for them?

Where this all falls down is that "know how to play their jobs/roles" invariably means "know how to play as well as me."

It's baffling to me that the same group of people who (rightfully) celebrate their skill in clearing high-end content simultaneously believe (apparently) that there is no intrinsic skill spread in the player base.

"By the time you reach DT you should be able to do X,Y and Z" is the most overused myth on these boards.

[TaleraRistain]

Where did I say that tanks shouldn't use mitigation?

When did I say the tanks *should* pull wall to wall?

Honestly I have no idea where your line of reply is even coming from. I was responding to this comment about why tanks would be uncomfortable with large pulls giving examples of what the tank's responsibility is in large pulls and refuting the "just pop a mit or two" mentality.

If you bothered to look at my past posts, I support the idea of allowing the tank to pull to their comfort level while encouraging them to try if they desire to give it a shot.

I never understood this tanks being uncomfortable with large pulls. If anyone should be uncomfortable it's the healer, the tank just pulls and pops a mit or two the rest is up to the healer (and dps).

[Gurgeh]

Actually, the content I engage with the most is PVP. That's my (misguided) passion in FFXIV.

But I don't see how it's high end or elitist to expect players who are lvl 70+ to know how to play their job/roles. I'll give learning players all the time they need but when does that end? What, you think level 100 players should still be able to say "I'm learning"? And if someone has tank anxiety still, in SHB/EW/DT content, maybe tanking (with other players) just isn't really for them?

Compared to your Ex farmer I'm a sht player. Never mind comparing me to a savage player.
XIV was my first MMO, and frankly my first action game.
I get mentally tired incredibly quickly compared to your average player, and could never do a 2 hour prog session without getting consistently wise after the first hour and twenty. (Not relevant to dungeons but you get the idea of what kind of player i am)

All that said, I know I'm finally a decent player. I know I'm useful at thinking on my feet to use my mitigations. I know that when I go in to PLD a normal alliance I'm good enough to take make 'all' the difference in guaranteeing a ropey group can clear. Even in my first/second look. I know that I can help a sprout healer gain a lot of confidence by showing them they can heal big pulls they thought they couldn't (because other tanks didn't use their mitties and that makes all the difference.)

But it took me a LONG time to ge there.
I didn't start pulling big, like more than one mob unitil almost hitting Expert roul for the first time. (That was EW) (... and no one in all that time ever made me feel shitty about it. By the way. Id have had my sprout for most of that. I shudder to think of the experience of have now.)

But I can absolutely assure you that it was still WAY beyond 50.
I dint think i had the courage to alliance (ARR) until around stormblood. It wasn't compulsory back then.
It took me a long time to develop muscle memory. (My biggest complaint about them changing jobs is that I've just given up trying getting good. It's impossible for me. I never even bothered unlocking viper, there is no point in me leveling as i can never get good, and it's not fun either in the tedious casual content.)

So yes. I do think it's reasonable to take that long. I got good eventually. I loved the game. I tried my absolute bloody hardest, but that's how long it took.
Back then people didn't feel the need to make people like me feel shitty. I would have noticed if every other DPS rushing me.
Then your totally fighting that many people might be terrified of dung any taking at all. They might well have hit end game before even unlocking their first tank, and then they're are mutual myriad ways to level 'really fast' while doing very little freak taking.

A lot of people just have NO idea how good they are, or genuinely less gifted other people can be. I would be willing to bet there are one or two things that i am better at you that that I would struggle to 'imagine' what it's like to be as bad at as you are (like empathic 'insight' frankly) but I can accept it as the reality.
You might be, but the chances are you are no genius. Imagine how a prize winning maths researcher would view your grasp of mathematics. The casm is in all likelihood unfathomable.
People can try their best but have 'very' different strengths and weaknesses.
And XIV is hardly maths research. So people can albeit taking much longer get there eventually, but it might take them, very much longer.

In the mean time it's just dungeon, and frankly there is nothing more ludicrously out of touch, than too pretend it 'matters' how one approaches a dungeon.
If you have only one way you like to run a dungeon, then you really need to form a static for that.

It kind of find as though casual trips are not your though. You are just looking to get out as soon as you get in because that's what suits 'YOU'. Your main event it PvP this time.

Any which way none of matters.

It ends when it ends. The ONLY time you will ever have s problem in a dungeon is if the healer is truly hopeless. Even then it's probably going to take an expert roul, a truly awful that tank also can't self heal, and a lack of the DPS that can res.
You see fresh new casual content more often than happens.
And that's not even an exaggeration is it!

The ganme is not just about 'you' having fun. It's about everyone having fun.
If everyone was going to be that bad fair enough, that would spoil 'all' your fun. But that's not reality.
That's never going to be. It's one every now and then you are getting to have to cool your tits over.

[Thurmnmurmn]

The issue with the mentality of someone should know how to play their class is that the game doesn't give you any reason at all to improve. The story dungeons are very easy yes but the idea of pulling wall to wall is a player created one.
Then you add the fact that in general, people are afraid to give advice in fear of being banned for whatever reason.
So I 100% believe that someone can go even all the way to LVL 100 without someone telling them to pull wall to wall.

And let's not forget that some people just don't want to improve. They're just having fun going at their slow speed. And they have the right to. We're all paying customers afterall.