New Player Etiquette

[Jeeqbit]

It's with seasoned players that AREN'T a mentor.

Before we had the Mentor system, it was just seasoned players. The truth is that seasoned players in any MMMORPG I've ever played have often become overconfident, impatient and determined to do things the most efficient way, forgetting that new players don't want that. They want to be lost, take things slow, experience this new world and absorb it slowly and figure it out. But the seasoned players sometimes don't feel like doing that because they've seen it all before.

As a trade mentor i've even been ABUSED PERSONALLY over having a trade crown because of that (sadly).

While some people who have the trade crown are genuinely experts at crafting and gathering, it's mostly a common way for sprouts to stay in the Novice Network or to shortcut their way to mentor status. A good example of the sort of people who would pick it up are twitch viewers who will bring their twitch lingo into the Novice Network and it's obnoxious and disruptive.

Moreover, what has bothered me in the past is seeing them answer battle-related questions that they don't actually know the answer to. Because they don't know the answer, they try to google it (which gives them an outdated or wrong answer) or they go and blindly quote The Balance or some other discord, rather than answering the question directly with knowledge they actually possess themselves.

I always feel that when someone has got battle mentor status that, in the vast majority of cases, they actually have a lot of battle experience and got the status naturally, and the answers more often feel like they are from years of actual experience playing the game.

So my guess is that it stems from people not appreciating the low requirements for trade mentor status.

Personally, when I see trade mentors in duties I expect that they know things. Not necessarily the amount battle mentors do - there are going to be gaps in their experience. But usually wearing that is them trying to say they want you to expect more of them, to know some basic things, such as using tank cooldowns, how to heal, etc. Because while a few crafter/gatherer mains will use it, 99% of the time it's just battle players in disguise.

If you're a DPS with a new-ish tank that isn't as fast as you like

Didn't quite understand your specific example here. But I can tell you, as a tank main myself, that it has always been the case that seasoned players (whether they be healers or DPS) have either run ahead and pulled themselves, asked that more be pulled, randomly abandoned the duty when they noticed it was slow, or flat out insulted the tank at some point.

Once I started doing big pulls, the complaints stopped. Never had them again in almost 10 years. No abandons, nothing. There was 1 person who complained that I did big pulls but they could handle healing them fine, and they were "concerned" about other people enduring my pulls rather than themselves. Yet, again, not a single other person has struggled with them nor expressed a problem with it.

It doesn't always happen, and if I heal/DPS myself, I just roll with however the pulls are and let the tank choose what to do. But from experience this isn't the case 100% of the time, sadly, and you will find people even on these forums that won't agree with letting them experience it slowly their first time.

The argument for experiencing it slowly has also diminished since Duty Support was added, because now you can do dungeons your first time with NPCs and take it slowly.

[Thurmnmurmn]

Respectfully, if you are tanking post lvl 50.. pull more and get the dungeon over with. Simple as. I can give leeway to tanks at 50 and below. Above that? Nah, pull more and keep up the pace.

You can lvl up jobs without ever playing it (FL/beast tribes/WT per example). So using the LVL of the player is kind of a bad indicator.
You're free to suggest to the new tank to pull more but if they don't feel comfortable doing it, does it hurt to respect their wishes? Doing single pulls vs doubles only really adds like 5 mins to the dungeon clear. Sure it's the millionth time you're doing it but it may be their first.

Ultimately though, it's up to the group. Majority wins for wanting to go faster or not. If you can't stand it, you're free to leave the group.

[ChrysOCE]

Then that is on the tank to understand their job. They have 50 levels to get used to their kit. 50 and below, I will give them all the time they want, let them set the pace and learn.

Above 50? No, I expect them to start to understand their job, skills and role. If they are uncomfortable doing that, do duty support at early levels.

Also, add to that, this example the OP is talking about Tower of Babil. Like, come on.

[ChrysOCE]

And look, to be fair, if you are melee DPS and going to do this? I will also be expecting you to use your Arm's Length, Bloodbath and Second Wind.

[yesnt]

Don't leave the dungeon [...] just slow down.

Respectfully, everybody is entitled to do with their limited lifetime what they want. If you want to play really slow - ok, you can do that. But other people can also decide they don't want to participate in that and click the "Leave" button.

[Kohashi]

Respectfully, everybody is entitled to do with their limited lifetime what they want. If you want to play really slow - ok, you can do that. But other people can also decide they don't want to participate in that and click the "Leave" button.

Sure, then the tank can also let you die as dps since everyone is free to do whatever the F they want. How is that helping anyone, I wonder.

As for the topic, I am very lenient; however, if you are 85+ and you still haven't figured out that you should be using 2 mits/ pull, then we will have a discussion.

[TBerry]

Sure, then the tank can also let you die as dps since everyone is free to do whatever the F they want. How is that helping anyone, I wonder.

As for the topic, I am very lenient; however, if you are 85+ and you still haven't figured out that you should be using 2 mits/ pull, then we will have a discussion.

Oh no, you see that doesn't apply to tanks because then they don't get what they want.

It's just toxic individualism and them seeing other people as data. Empathy or even the slightest form of actual etiquette is a slur to them, while having the patience of a wooden rubber band and are in need of instant gratification.
It's all just ME ME ME!

[Kohashi]

Oh no, you see that doesn't apply to tanks because then they don't get what they want.

It's just toxic individualism and them seeing other people as data. Empathy or even the slightest form of actual etiquette is a slur to them, while having the patience of a wooden rubber band and are in need of instant gratification.
It's all just ME ME ME!

what do you mean? Please make it make sense.

Also nobody forced you to que as DPS, you want to dictate the pace of the dungeon, you are free to que as Tank. K bye!

[TBerry]

what do you mean? Please make it make sense.

Also nobody forced you to que as DPS, you want to dictate the pace of the dungeon, you are free to que as Tank. K bye!

What I'm saying is "Rules for thee, but not for me".
They wil force you into their playstyle regardless of level of party and just rush forward without even giving the tank a chance, but cry the second they die even if it wasn't the tank's fault.

It's not a lethargic play if the DPS brought it on themselves, nobody is gonna report for a wipe on ads.

What this really is is coercion by threatening to report someone if they don't do as the DPS/healer wants..

[Mesarthim]

Totally valid if you don't like him not pulling wall to wall, but thats him - he's getting used to the mechanics and will start pulling more when he's used to mechanics.

Ignoring everything else I have a question:

What trash pulls in dungeons actually have a mechanic beyond auto attacking and throwing an aoe MAYBE once a pull, sometimes? This is what causes wall pulls to be the norm. There's no mechanics to trash pulls, Tower of Babil is no exception.