Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

[0blivion]

Looking at the requirements for +2 gear and the plethora of exchangeables as well as the 7.3 LL, I'mma say that the intention wasn't for this few people to clear. Since, y'know, YoshiP did bring up the clear number.

[Tyintheron]

Apologies, 0blivion - it won't let me quote everything I wanted to respond to, here, so I'll just keep it short.

Basically: I don't think it's "unhinged" to give you some examples of how real life can get in the way of Hardcore Raid Team Super Gamma Bravo getting a full 48-man squad. But it sounds like the premade stuff is getting fixed, so - good. Hopefully it'll stamp down on the hostility.

And you're right - I haven't done the raid! The reason I've been posting here has just been that the sheer hostility has been really surprising. "You were here before us? LEAVE, OR DIE!" being some generally accepted "yeah, this is fine" solution to the systemic design problems is, honestly... I just find it really sad, man.

Because I think that for every genuine "stream sniper" being a jerk to a Twitch whateveryoucall'em, there are probably 100 new players not understanding why the other 47 people in the new raid they wanted to see are being a dick to them.

So, if your crew DOES offer new players a chance to run with you later? That's cool, bud. Sincerely. THAT is what there needs to be more of.

But I'd also urge you to not just assume stuff like "3 cyphers means this person is a tool" - because they really might just have 3 cyphers on them and not know any better than to plug 'em all in to see the cool new stuff.

[Gurgeh]

...
What I assume they mean is "we won't be using resources to heal you up anyways therefore we won't raise you to begin with" which no offense, is an asinine way to go about it. Not even Ultimates are this tight that you can't drop some single-target heals on someone who recently got rezzed. For all the reasons one might have to "teach them a lesson", 'my resources' is a really awful reason.

Have any of the big savage influencers actually said anything to curb this behaviour?
Because this, willfully not healing people after a res would be just the next level of appalling.
I don't know they might have?

They could do do much good if they got together and set an example that it's not ok to be a total asshole and wilfully not heal people.

Xeno, Arthars, MrHappy, if they actually came out and said this is not ok behaviour "You're a piece of sh1 dk" and it's risky unacceptable, they could actually doc some real good.
God I miss when Zepla was ambassador to look up to.
If they haven't said anything then we really are just left with these pieces of ... cowardly naval gazers . No apologies. No take backs.
It's totally unnecessarily, to go out of your way not to heal someone.
It's just shitty cruel.

They could really do some actual good.

And I'll say again, it's not your instance because you brought the majority of the players.
It was 'designed', to be run with whoever you get.
It was designed that that might wipe you.
It was designed to be bumpy, and that you try try and try again.
It's not your instance. Your not entitled to make consistent prog.
Discuss in instance. And try try try again.

[0blivion]

@Tyintheron: This isn't about stream sniping in particular, though. Like, yeah, I'mma be real, I don't feel any particular way about streamers. I think if they wanna have a 48man static, unironically, that's okay, but I'm not touching that with a 7-foot pole. What I do participate in is discords who regularly politely ask people to step off platforms, say they're premade and offer an invite link to join newbie runs. I think this is where my frustration is coming from. Yeah, time sucks, but the prog will be better for you and everyone else if you are with people at your prog point.

Usually, the discords aren't streaming. We just pathetically tried to find an instance for an hour, finally found one and asked 1-2 players to please step off the platform so we can enter together. After, mind you, holding free for all PF entries so everyone could organize, spreadsheet and so on. So while I agree it is godawful that we don't have direct entry and/or functional PF that includes phantom jobs, my main issue will be and has always been that the people in the discords run newbie runs fairly often. We want people to progress. We just don't want them to fuck up the gigantic spreadsheet you need to coordinate roles.

So, yeah. I do feel all sorts of ways about snipers. I don't care about streamers, and I do have less sympathy for them than for FFA discord runs, the latter is what I've been experiencing for the most part. So I think we had miscommunication there, Tyintheron? Because yeah I personally don't really engage with streamers lol. Obviously, they shouldn't get sniped either, but also, imho they should provide a link to a public discord the way FFA discord runs do.

/e: Not engaging with Gurgeh because that's literally a troll

[Tyintheron]

As has been clarified at various points throughout the thread, the player was not in the discord premade's group as they refused to join their party or even communicate that they wanted to.

And no, a tankbuster was not aimed into the solo player it was pointed that way to avoid cleaving the entire raid.

Hah! Well, fair enough.

Still, I can't help but feel like I wouldn't respond to someone telling me that if I join an instance - something I have the right to do - that I can do it but "we will leave you on the floor"... well. It's not exactly the friendliest-sounding group to want to ask to join, either, is it? So I'm not sure I blame them for that.

[Mawlzy]

Apologies, 0blivion - it won't let me quote everything I wanted to respond to, here, so I'll just keep it short.

Basically: I don't think it's "unhinged" to give you some examples of how real life can get in the way of Hardcore Raid Team Super Gamma Bravo getting a full 48-man squad. But it sounds like the premade stuff is getting fixed, so - good. Hopefully it'll stamp down on the hostility.

And you're right - I haven't done the raid! The reason I've been posting here has just been that the sheer hostility has been really surprising. "You were here before us? LEAVE, OR DIE!" being some generally accepted "yeah, this is fine" solution to the systemic design problems is, honestly... I just find it really sad, man.

Because I think that for every genuine "stream sniper" being a jerk to a Twitch whateveryoucall'em, there are probably 100 new players not understanding why the other 47 people in the new raid they wanted to see are being a dick to them.

So, if your crew DOES offer new players a chance to run with you later? That's cool, bud. Sincerely. THAT is what there needs to be more of.

But I'd also urge you to not just assume stuff like "3 cyphers means this person is a tool" - because they really might just have 3 cyphers on them and not know any better than to plug 'em all in to see the cool new stuff.

I'm assuming the defenders of the Discord hegemony in this and other threads represent a multitude of different Discords dedicated to this content?

We are told they are altruistic, all-inclusive, formed for the very purpose of helping all interested players clear FT.

And yet nowhere in any of these threads have I seen a single Discord invite link.

Have any of the big savage influencers actually said anything to curb this behaviour?
Because this, willfully not healing people after a res would be just the next level of appalling.
I don't know they might have?

They have actively encouraged it (letting people die).

[0blivion]

Quick, entirely unironic question. Is it against ToS to post links? If not, I'll compile them.

[Tyintheron]

@Tyintheron: This isn't about stream sniping in particular, though. Like, yeah, I'mma be real, I don't feel any particular way about streamers. I think if they wanna have a 48man static, unironically, that's okay, but I'm not touching that with a 7-foot pole. What I do participate in is discords who regularly politely ask people to step off platforms, say they're premade and offer an invite link to join newbie runs. I think this is where my frustration is coming from. Yeah, time sucks, but the prog will be better for you and everyone else if you are with people at your prog point.

...

So, yeah. I do feel all sorts of ways about snipers. I don't care about streamers, and I do have less sympathy for them than for FFA discord runs, the latter is what I've been experiencing for the most part. So I think we had miscommunication there, Tyintheron? Because yeah I personally don't really engage with streamers lol. Obviously, they shouldn't get sniped either, but also, imho they should provide a link to a public discord the way FFA discord runs do.

We're good, mate. It sounds like you have a good crew, and I can get the frustration - again, I think it's really great you guys set up runs for new players. THAT is the good stuff, right there!

And I'm not a "streamer" type of person, either, so I'm with you there - I'd just been assuming that's where the "sniping" part comes from, so that one's on me.

Hopefully you'll get an easier time of setting it all up once 7.3 hits, eh? Hope it makes it a bit more fun for all concerned.

[Kasumii]

Fair is fair, if hardcore players are going to keep treating casual players like crap, it's only right they get crap flung right back at them, and they don't have any right to complain until they stop flinging first because they started it, and love re-flinging every time another piece of content comes out that's exclusive to them.

Yep. Agreed. The amount of acceptable hostility towards people who want something thats not EX/Savage level and then telling them they are "antisocial jerks" and "leeches" like another user here likes to toss around is quite frankly baffling. But today's LL showed they do not give a rat's tail about you or me or the other 99% of players and basically told each of us to eat dirt.

Its sad but at this point I just resort to reporting those people whenever I see them ingame. Maybe itll help curb some of them out.

[0blivion]

The sniping is actually a relic from BA discourse I think? LOL But uhhhhHhhh yeah I host newbie runs myself and I've actually never gotten sniped so it's a bit of a sore spot for me because I've seen other people hosting runs get a lot of them, unfortunately. But yeah I believe in the power of FFA discords beating the hell out of the cursed entry system!