Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

[RuriStone]

If you pull the ToS Card :

"Just as in the real world, it is important to be considerate of other players to maintain cordial relationships and positive experiences in the world of Final Fantasy XIV. It is prohibited to make expressions or to act in ways that would be unacceptable in the real world. This includes disturbing the peace and having a lack of consideration for others. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued."

"having a lack of consideration for others" if i watch Guides, Learn Strats, try to get 48 People in one Instance and there is one Person which doesnt Respect the Time involvment and shows no consideration if someone wants to do the Content with 48 Premades and forces his way into it, i clearly call that a lack of consideration of other players.

Found my hole.

Forces his way into it? What are you talking about it's part of the game that you can randomly join in with this content....

[Aravell]

What some of you see as harassment is actually a fair and polite warning that if they choose to enter the content, then they're on their own as they will not be receiving assistance. It's to give the random player the option to back out before entering, nobody can stop them from entering, so it's only fair to notify them this.

If people start flinging reports everywhere, then nobody will communicate with randoms anymore. The random player will enter the content and be confused why everyone is ignoring them and leaving them on the floor, they would also be left without recourse since ignoring someone is not reportable. This would just further sour the experience for any random players.

[Mawlzy]

I suppose people always want to have a boogeyman. Mentors, casuals, raiders, now discord groups.

Oh don't worry about that! Discord groups have been widely loathed for years.

But hey I have a helpful suggestion. When you politely ask someone to leave, do you offer them any compensation? I'm sure they haven't put in the hours you have with all the nightmare of organization and such, but they have leveled and possibly been waiting for some time for the weather to pop.

I figure 5 million gil should hit the spot. What's that, about 1/5th of a CAR hairstyle?

Afterthought: isn't the fact that it is a major hassle to get 48 people into the same instance definitive proof that SE definitely did not want this content run by 48-person premades?

[Neclord]

I agree this is pure toxicity trying to stop random players joining in because they've got a premade group i can't believe they can't see how anti social that actually is. The game allows randoms in. Simple as that, you can harass, shame, reject etc but that's a reflection on you and your 'amazing chill discord' not them. I've only just reached this content myself and planned to try it out but reading all this is very off putting. I have no desire to seek out any of these discords at all so far. Also Ieaving somebody dead is reportable because you're disrupting their enjoyment of the game.

The game allows you to join a savage kill party on PF even if you've never entered the fight before. Would the 7 party members be disrupting your enjoyment of the game if they removed you and blacklisted you for not being ready to kill (per the objective of that premade group)? The game allows you to join that party after all, it's clearly the intended design, right?

Or is courtesy not something you need only when the method of entry is a glowing platform, rather than a PF menu?

[RuriStone]

What some of you see as harassment is actually a fair and polite warning that if they choose to enter the content, then they're on their own as they will not be receiving assistance. It's to give the random player the option to back out before entering, nobody can stop them from entering, so it's only fair to notify them this.

If people start flinging reports everywhere, then nobody will communicate with randoms anymore. The random player will enter the content and be confused why everyone is ignoring them and leaving them on the floor, they would also be left without recourse since ignoring someone is not reportable. This would just further sour the experience for any random players.

i'd rather be ignored than rudely being asked to leave. You can't even tell when you're being 'ignored' because we're online and it's a game, being 'ignored' could just be people focusing on the fight or talking in vc or anything really.

[RuriStone]

The game allows you to join a savage kill party on PF even if you've never entered the fight before. Would the 7 party members be disrupting your enjoyment of the game if they removed you and blacklisted you for not being ready to kill (per the objective of that premade group)? The game allows you to join that party after all, it's clearly the intended design, right?

Or is courtesy not something you need only when the method of entry is a glowing platform, rather than a PF menu?

It is the intended design and some people enjoy playing content blind and it's part of the design that the leader of the pf can remove people sooo i'm not sure what your point is because can you physically remove someone trying to play forked tower? or do you have to rudely ask them to leave, threaten them with toxicity etc etc .

also to add to this ...in pf you can set it so only people with clears can join, you can do all kinds of things to prevent a random newbie joining so yeah really don't get your point

[Neclord]

It is the intended design and some people enjoy playing content blind and it's part of the design that the leader of the pf can remove people sooo i'm not sure what your point is because can you physically remove someone trying to play forked tower? or do you have to rudely ask them to leave, threaten them with toxicity etc etc .

also to add to this ...in pf you can set it so only people with clears can join, you can do all kinds of things to prevent a random newbie joining so yeah really don't get your point

A kill party in PF is for people looking to get their first clear. Anyone can join those. It's not a reclear party.

This is exactly the point. Unlike PF, there are no protections for players and organisers trying to do serious runs of Forked Tower. 48 people are entirely reliant on the manners and courtesy of the other players populating the instance. These players would never naturally enter the tower without these organised groups being there and it is in nobody's interest for them to disrupt the run.

If you went into the middle of an open public field with a picnic basket and the 20 or so people playing a game of football on that field that you are now wedged between approached you and politely asked you to leave, would they be rude? Would you be discourteous? The field is open and accessible to the public, after all. You have just as much a right to be there as they do - if they have a problem they should just take it up with the local authority.

[Tyintheron]

If that's true, then go and PUG it? SE left their "organized group content" calling card on it - which is limited rez. If it was the intent, we'd all be pugging it like we did CLL, DR and Dalriada in Shadowbringers.

But that's the point, isn't it? That that's what the OP tried to do. There were no barriers in their way to doing it - just a group being jerks about it on the other side.

By all accounts I've read, the people who die are not killed on purpose. Rather, they are killed by a tank buster they stood in because they don't know the mechanics.

I mean, sure, that can happen. OP seemed quite sure they were deliberately killed, though, which seems to be supported by the fact they were then refused a res.

It's important to also understand that these forums are cross-region. People in the EU region are, on average, far more blunt and more sweaty when it comes to raids. They will more often call people out directly and be rude in dungeons.

I hear what you're saying. I'm just not sure why.

If "the truth" people are so interested in telling is "I'm okay with being a jerk to people in the game who get in my way" then more power to them on their self-reporting forum rampages, I guess.

The part I'm not sure about is whether you're telling me I should be more okay with someone tank-busting me because in French they'd say "Le Tank Busteurre, le croissant-head!" or something (important note: it's possible I do not speak any French), which is therefore a much more socially acceptable way of griefing me in Europe.

You'd better believe that if someone deliberately tank-busts me I'm writing angrily about them being mean in my dream journal at the end of the day, no matter WHERE they come from.

[Supersnow845]

Afterthought: isn't the fact that it is a major hassle to get 48 people into the same instance definitive proof that SE definitely did not want this content run by 48-person premades?

Which circles back to the original problem the so called “casuals” side of this discussion never has an answer for

If this content isn’t done by discords it’s done by nobody. Which is ultimately square enix’s awful design for the entry conditions

Like short of square completely redesigning it what do you want the discords to do? Anyone feel free to chime in here, what do you want the discords to do? They are filling a niche that makes this content possible. If your answer is “it shouldn’t need discord” then congrats your problem isn’t with the discords it’s with square.

Every person who joins in place of an organised discord participant lowers chance of success. As has been shown OP as an example died because they didn’t know a mechanic and almost killed others by blowing up traps. What else can the discords do? If you don’t want deal with them at all then again the problem is square.

Like people here acting like the discords are evil and the problem I have no idea how you want to solve this content

[Kasumii]

What some of you see as harassment is actually a fair and polite warning that if they choose to enter the content, then they're on their own as they will not be receiving assistance. It's to give the random player the option to back out before entering, nobody can stop them from entering, so it's only fair to notify them this.

If people start flinging reports everywhere, then nobody will communicate with randoms anymore. The random player will enter the content and be confused why everyone is ignoring them and leaving them on the floor, they would also be left without recourse since ignoring someone is not reportable. This would just further sour the experience for any random players.

It is actually objectively harrasment according to the games ToS I do not get why you cannot understand this.

""・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.
(Except when in accordance with rules set by an administrator such as a Free Company Master)
Key Points
It is prohibited to make statements such as the following examples to try to kick someone from the party, content, community, etc. as if they are not qualified to participate. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

"If you can't do the mechanic well, maybe you shouldn't bother joining the party."
"If you're going to talk like that, why don't you just quit?"
"If you don't understand that, you'd be wise to leave the party."
"Let's ignore them."
"Let’s leave [person] out."
"It's not worth wasting our time, you should quit."
"Don't join if your equipment is that bad/such a low item level."

Like what do you not understand? You are clearly excluding someone from doing content by doing this. Why do you ignore that point so much lol. As I told someone else, you don't have to like it. The randoms you accuse of sniping certainly don't like it, I don't like it. But that is how the game handles entrance to FT. This is not some PF people sign up for. It is literally "walk up and put in a cipher". Nothing more, nothing less. It is not gated behind savages and ultimates where you have to go out of your way to talk to an NPC to unlock said content, it is unlocked by doing OC by DEFAULT. What do you elitists not understand...

As for ignoring them and leaving them on the floor. See ToS again.

"For example, the following types of situations fall under the act of giving an advantage to the enemy (or the opposing team/players in PvP content):

"I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group."

(Reviving someone falls under healing for me, its fine if you dont see it that way)