Difficult experience in Forked Tower – a reminder to respect public content

[Anonemoose]

I think using the term "sniper" to refer to people who aren't Discord cattle (and its normalization) illustrates the core problems far more than any well articulated post can. It clearly has negative connotations and is used to create an opposing class of "others" - people who are simply trying to play the game but, for their own reasons - and there are many - don't want to engage with Discord, a Discord clique, or even worse, a Final Fantasy XIV Discord clique when this award winning community has a very remarkable track record of the most unhinged weirdos making everything awful for everybody. Just three examples include the Materia Discord (which managed to damage the launch of the OCE server far more than SquareEnix ever could), PVP Revival (https://www.revivalpvp.com/) and the Ser Aymeric bot (which was used to, amongst other things, commit actual real world crimes against children).

I've said it before in this thread and everybody seems to have come to the same conclusion anyway - the real problem here is the way that Forked Tower was implemented. But I think it's another issue entirely that Discord cliques and their cattle are so obnoxious as to label anybody who isn't a part of their wonderful little group as "snipers".

[Neclord]

I think using the term "sniper" to refer to people who aren't Discord cattle (and its normalization) illustrates the core problems far more than any well articulated post can. It clearly has negative connotations and is used to create an opposing class of "others" - people who are simply trying to play the game but, for their own reasons - and there are many - don't want to engage with Discord, a Discord clique, or even worse, a Final Fantasy XIV Discord clique when this award winning community has a very remarkable track record of the most unhinged weirdos making everything awful for everybody. Just three examples include the Materia Discord (which managed to damage the launch of the OCE server far more than SquareEnix ever could), PVP Revival (https://www.revivalpvp.com/) and the Ser Aymeric bot (which was used to, amongst other things, commit actual real world crimes against children).

I've said it before in this thread and everybody seems to have come to the same conclusion anyway - the real problem here is the way that Forked Tower was implemented. But I think it's another issue entirely that Discord cliques and their cattle are so obnoxious as to label anybody who isn't a part of their wonderful little group as "snipers".

Take this and replace "Sniper" with "Prog Liar" and make it about PF and this just falls apart. Does the fact a glowy platform is the entrance to the content, rather than a PF menu, mean that players no longer need to show basic courtesy to the majority participants who are entering with a specific objective? These terms are negative by nature because the behaviour for both snipers and prog liars are fundamentally discourteous and selfish.

[Anonemoose]

Take this and replace "Sniper" with "Prog Liar" and make it about PF and this just falls apart. Does the fact a glowy platform is the entrance to the content, rather than a PF menu, mean that players no longer need to show basic courtesy to the majority participants who are entering with a specific objective? These terms are negative by nature because the behaviour for both snipers and prog liars are fundamentally discourteous and selfish.

Are you being deliberately misleading or do you genuinely not understand the differences between the two classes you are comparing? Your so called "snipers" are just playing the game as it was intended. Your "prog liars" are being deliberately deceptive for their own benefit (and it's probably your own fault for not checking their logs anyway). They are not the same thing, at all.

[Neclord]

Are you being deliberately misleading or do you genuinely not understand the differences between the two classes you are comparing? Your so called "snipers" are just playing the game as it was intended. Your "prog liars" are being deliberately deceptive for their own benefit (and it's probably your own fault for not checking their logs anyway). They are not the same thing, at all.

I have no idea what you mean. The game allows players to join kill parties in PF when they have no experience with the content - they have a right to join because the game lets them. You shouldn't be expected to become a part of the logging intelligentsia to vet people joining and it quite clearly creates an "us vs them" environment where this 'clique' of loggers look down on a player's god given right to join any party the game allows them to. Take it up with SQEX - it's entirely their fault that PF is this way and it's clearly a design flaw.

Jokes aside, they aren't even require to lie to join a PF party they're not ready for. They simply don't need to read the description of the PF listing and it's the same premise. They join, they try their "best" and they inconvenience others because they are not being considerate.

You hold PF under a different standard because there is an established etiquette of what is and is not acceptable - built over years. That the glowy platform of Occult Crescent is more open to abuse than PF is an issue, but it does not mean the players throwing themselves into the tower are any less discourteous and out of line as a prog liar or someone who didn't check the strats on a PF listing would be.

[Anonemoose]

I have no idea what you mean. The game allows players to join kill parties in PF when they have no experience with the content - they have a right to join because the game lets them. You shouldn't be expected to become a part of the logging intelligentsia to vet people joining and it quite clearly creates an "us vs them" environment where this 'clique' of loggers look down on a player's god given right to join any party the game allows them to. Take it up with SQEX - it's entirely their fault that PF is this way and it's clearly a design flaw.

Jokes aside, they aren't even require to lie to join a PF party they're not ready for. They simply don't need to read the description of the PF listing and it's the same premise. They join, they try their "best" and they inconvenience others because they are not being considerate.

You hold PF under a different standard because there is an established etiquette of what is and is not acceptable - built over years. That the glowy platform of Occult Crescent is more open to abuse than PF is an issue, but it does not mean the players throwing themselves into the tower are any less discourteous and out of line as a prog liar or someone who didn't check the strats on a PF listing would be.

For somebody to be a "prog liar" they need to be deliberately misrepresenting their progression in a particular Duty. That particular circumstance alone makes the rest of your post meaningless because you're conflating apples and oranges, and you either know you are but are doing it anyway (which is bad), or you just genuinely don't even understand what you're saying (which is also bad).

[Volgia]

You hold PF under a different standard because there is an established etiquette of what is and is not acceptable - built over years. That the glowy platform of Occult Crescent is more open to abuse than PF is an issue, but it does not mean the players throwing themselves into the tower are any less discourteous and out of line as a prog liar or someone who didn't check the strats on a PF listing would be.

I think that's what started this problem in the first place, cuz Field operation's etiquette only has one dungeon and that's BA, so I am not surprised most people who got into FT don't understand that politely asking you to join the premade and interact and read up on the mechs isn't bullying or gatekeeping. It's just the best way you have to clear that particular type of content.

[Aravell]

I love how the people who take issue with the term "sniper" also are the same people who call people who organised through discord things like "toxic", "elitist", "gatekeepers", "snobs", "sociopaths" and now "cattle".

But I guess it's fine to bash on one but not the other, eh?

[Anonemoose]

I love how the people who take issue with the term "sniper" also are the same people who call people who organised through discord things like "toxic", "elitist", "gatekeepers", "snobs", "sociopaths" and now "cattle".

But I guess it's fine to bash on one but not the other, eh?

Well it would be hypocrisy otherwise, eh?

[Wolwosh]

Its great that we have to wait so long for content to arrive only to not able to do half of it because you aren't a content creator with dozens of minions that do everything for you or be in some lame DC where everyone thinks they're hilarious.

[Akivar]

I hate to break it to you discord people. But the content doesn't belong to just you. The content belongs to anyway that pays for the game and pays a subscription. They pay for access to this ride. If you do not like them attempt to ride it, that's on you.
If you dare ever try to harass me for trying to enjoy the content I pay for, I'll report you and hopefully nobody will never have to deal with you ever again.
Discord servers don't own any part of content. It would be like a discord server trying to our the roulette system. Imagine if you got into an alliance raid and a group was all like "hey you can't be here unless you join our discord.". Not one person here would be ok with that. Well Forked tower is basically a roulette to enter. Whoever gets in DESERVES to be there because they were chosen by the entry system. It is not YOUR content, it is everyone that was chosen to enter.
So get over yourselves. You are the ones breaking TOS.