Paladin needs some changes

[Shurrikhan]

Shield Lob: Give some Aoe Effect to pull multiple mobs at the same time in dungeons.

Sure. Could even be far lower damage on subsequent hits while still applying plenty of threat. It'd be irrelevant but at least look like flavor, so... /shrug.

Cover: Very bad and unused skill, please remove.

Not exactly and hell no, respectively.

Hard pass on the rest as well.

[Brandr]

Please, devs. Ignore this whole thread. All suggestions are awful.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I feel that the paladin class could be given some special attention by the developers. As I've played the class for a long time, including in some expansions, I feel that it could receive some updates to the skills that are pretty bad in my opinion.

Shield Lob: Give some Aoe Effect to pull multiple mobs at the same time in dungeons.

Shield Lob + Provoke + 2nd Shield Lob if you really need it. Otherwise use Total Eclipse > Prominence combo, it received bonus enmity for a reason.

Holy Spirit/Circle: [...]

Visual representation and what it should be is subjective. It fits the fantasy holy knight theme well enough. That said, the potencies are plenty as is.

Clemency: Reduce the cost of MP and give us a regen HP over time effect.

I mean... you generate 5000MP per minute with passive MP regen and Spirits Within/Expiacion alone. Add the extra from combos and you got plenty to spare. Clemency is an optional strong heal. The regen is overkill when keeping in mind Holy Sheltron/Intervention regen and attack magic healing at Lv84+.

Requiescat: Need a visual update asap.

It doesn't. And if you need one, you get it at Lv96 with Imperator. Not everything needs to look like a god-shattering attack of destruction the level you learn it before upgrades.

Cover: Very bad and unused skill, please remove.
Intervention: Same things as Cover.
Intervene: Add another maximum change for 3 and give and add another effect to it to compensate for the removal of the Cover and Intervention skills like: "When used on an ally, it rushes over them defending against incoming damage, giving a shield that mitigates 10% of the damage dealt as a barrier."

No, no, massive no.

Cover is not useless, it is gimped by its gauge cost that got attached for no reason since 5.0 on top of removing the Lv66 mitigation trait from 4.X, making it be in a worse state than back in Heavensward and A Realm Reborn. It needs an unnerf in one of these aspects.

Intervention is also not useless, in fact it's one of the best ally mitigation skills you have at Lv82+. The use case is spot mitigation/regen on low health DPS and healers, as well as adding extra protection to your co-tank, independently to your own actions (Oath Gauge cost aside).

The way you word Intervene implies it still has damage potency, which will make using it on allies undesirable due to how fights are designed. Removing intervention and folding it into Intervene just makes things unbelievably restrictive rather than flexible.

Furthermore, adding a "rush to your target ally to protect them" makes this move universally useless when dealing with tankbusters or mechanics where you are not allowed to get close to your target, much less touch them - proximity attacks, a gap in the floor, debuffs that will kill you if passed at the wrong time, all of these would make this version of Paladin a virtually useless co-tank. These mechanics are plenty in high-end content, I assure you that.

In addition, give us two more damage skills in compensation for removing Cover and Intervention. Paladin already has too many mitigation skills, damage skills with beautiful effects would be very welcome in this case.

PLD has a large variety of swordplay and magical attacks, arguably more and more meaningful than the other tank jobs when optimizing it. Dropping defensive actions is not a reason to add more attacks, as they would need to integrate meaningfully but also be considered for the damage calculation of PLD balance vs other tanks.

If there is anything PLD could benefit from is a rework to Shield Bash, as its' current use is so laughably niche that even Cover has more useful applications. An integration into the damage kit, maybe a cooldown that grants a burst of Oath gauge while doing damage, could do well. An additional shield attack of the past, Shield Swipe, could also be considered.

I hope this feedback will help increase the fantasy of the class and make it more enjoyable to play. Thank you!

Job fantasy is good, job fantasy at the cost of viability by making things clunky and inflexible is bad.

[Momma_Dee]

snip

Agreeing with everything this guy said.

If anything, I wish they would just remove the oath gauge cost for Cover and keep the 2 minute CD to keep it balanced and fair. I can't count the number of times I've saved runs because of a well-timed Cover, and as such I always find opportunities to use it. Plus it never fails in making my Cover's target happy.

Regarding Intervention: this got a lot of mileage when I did Recollection on week 1. The regen + damage reduction was a godsend because they gave healers time to breathe while they did their best to keep everybody up. That bleed was not messing around.

On Clemency getting a regen: No, that would be way too powerful. Holy Sheltron's regen is enough. Give the healers something to do, man.

So no, they are not useless. And I'm glad to see that most in this thread (and in another one I saw) share the same sentiments.

[Shurrikhan]

Isn't that just a matter of wanting them combined, like TBN and Heart of Stone/Corundum?

At least I'm sorely hoping it is.

Or, to correct the idea trajectory if not...

-> Remove the cooldown (making it purely gauge-based) with a safety of being unable to reapply it to anyone still benefiting from the 4-second bolstered effect and thereby save the button.
...Or, better yet, unneuter macros, and make the consolidation optional.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Isn't that just a matter of wanting them combined, like TBN and Heart of Stone/Corundum?

At least I'm sorely hoping it is.

Given what they (OP) wrote for Intervene (the dash)... I highly doubt it.

[Supersnow845]

Isn't that just a matter of wanting them combined, like TBN and Heart of Stone/Corundum?

At least I'm sorely hoping it is.

Even then that’s a pretty big reduction of one of the big niches PLD has (being able to intervene a friend then HS yourself if you have 100 gauge)

[Rithy255]

Cover doesn't need to be removed it just needs to become a role action that tanks actually should have to use. Intervention feels low impact early levels, but it's mitigation is actually really nice to have when your a off tank. Later on it becomes a even better skill, though merging it with holy sheltron is something I've often suggested

I like the idea of dashing to allies but doesn't need any sort of shield, Clemency doesn't really need a regen, Idm a MP buff but more for the fact 4000Mp in level 60 content is way too much, 2000Mp standard is fine as it's a emergency skill (usually used to save a ally before a raid wide or if healers are downed) not a skill you'll be always pressing for sustain.

Even then that’s a pretty big reduction of one of the big niches PLD has (being able to intervene a friend then HS yourself if you have 100 gauge)

You can do this pretty easily, by making the cooldown recast around 2s (as 1s would cause double tapping). Intervention is a nothing skill that serves the same purpose of being holy sheltron for a friend. I will also include that I don't really like the stacked mitigation effect 10% + 10% I feel like it could just be a 15% that lasts 8s to be honest (this applies to other tanks too).

[Supersnow845]

Cover doesn't need to be removed it just needs to become a role action that tanks actually should have to use. Intervention feels low impact early levels, but it's mitigation is actually really nice to have when your a off tank. Later on it becomes a even better skill, though merging it with holy sheltron is something I've often suggested

I like the idea of dashing to allies but doesn't need any sort of shield, Clemency doesn't really need a regen, Idm a MP buff but more for the fact 4000Mp in level 60 content is way too much, 2000Mp standard is fine as it's a emergency skill (usually used to save a ally before a raid wide or if healers are downed) not a skill you'll be always pressing for sustain.


You can do this pretty easily, by making the cooldown recast around 2s (as 1s would cause double tapping). Intervention is a nothing skill that serves the same purpose of being holy sheltron for a friend. I will also include that I don't really like the stacked mitigation effect 10% + 10% I feel like it could just be a 15% that lasts 8s to be honest (this applies to other tanks too).

Why would you want to make an iconic PLD skill a role action? Should we give deployment tactics to every healer? Should we give mantra or tempra grassa to every DPS?

Like please let classes have unique utility

[Carighan]

Like please let classes have unique utility

This thread reads like a "What not to do to fix FFXIV class design" checklist, doesn't it?