Criticism

[Kohashi]

If the feedback were actually acknowledged and in a sensible way whilst discussing how it fits into their games direction, and not just telling people if they want compelling gameplay then they should do xyz (because they can't be bothered finding a healthy medium outside of that content), then I doubt many of the players critiquing the game would see many issues in that. However, the vast majority of the feedback has demonstrably fallen onto deaf ears, including that which is well written, discussing the positives, negatives and the impact of it.

When you spend the better part of 6-7 years providing feedback to the game, just to have it ignored, fall on deaf ears, or completely dismissed outright, then yeah, most feedback will eventually turn into anything but criticality, because seemingly they have done anything but suggest they actually care about the feedback (or that it is even being passed on), and as far as community engagement goes... Well, let's not talk about that because the only time we get it, is when we get the "I'm not annoyed at you, I am just disappointed speech" about third party tools.

If they aren't prepared to discuss it themselves, and if they aren't willing to engage with it properly then they should not be telling people to leave feedback on a forum in the first place, because this is what results in what you're seeing on the General Discussion.

But based on how confident you are, I can safely assume that you're a legacy player, and that you have read all of the feedback presented, or do you just sit on a small bunch of threads and pretend this is the only feedback that has ever been presented?

You can leave feedback on the forums, but most of it doesn't qualify as that. It's just venting and throwing tantrums.

Look at how you are even constructing your argument. You have 0 self-reflection, and instead of actually pausing and asking yourself why, in 6-7 years, your feedback fell on deaf ears, you continue to spout your "criticism". Like really?

Take a step back and ask where it went wrong. It cannot possibly be because the "feedback" just comes out as spiteful, toxic waste most of the time, it's not because they don't want to make another exact copy of WoW (even though the base idea came from there), and it cannot be possible be because JP people will never outright tell you no, or that the fact SE has always been resistant to change and the direction they take.

Look at the damn topics on the front page:

Demiatma drop rates are unacceptable
FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE
Machinest Further Nerfed PvE? (this dude cannot even read the damn changes properly yet he is venting)
How disrepectfull
Who else is thinking of cancelling their sub these days?
So you acknowledge atma farm was awful but do it again 12 sec later?

Yeah, my dude, there is 0 hope forums will be taken seriously.

[moodud]

Try criticize the game in jp forum. The mods will delete them in a flash 24/7.
Unfortunately they only accept praise as feedback.

[Sekundessounet]

You can leave feedback on the forums, but most of it doesn't qualify as that. It's just venting and throwing tantrums.

Look at how you are even constructing your argument. You have 0 self-reflection, and instead of actually pausing and asking yourself why, in 6-7 years, your feedback fell on deaf ears, you continue to spout your "criticism". Like really?

Take a step back and ask where it went wrong. It cannot possibly be because the "feedback" just comes out as spiteful, toxic waste most of the time, it's not because they don't want to make another exact copy of WoW (even though the base idea came from there), and it cannot be possible be because JP people will never outright tell you no, or that the fact SE has always been resistant to change and the direction they take.

Look at the damn topics on the front page:

Demiatma drop rates are unacceptable
FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE
Machinest Further Nerfed PvE? (this dude cannot even read the damn changes properly yet he is venting)
How disrepectfull
Who else is thinking of cancelling their sub these days?
So you acknowledge atma farm was awful but do it again 12 sec later?

Yeah, my dude, there is 0 hope forums will be taken seriously.

Not saying I disagree, but the Machinist guy wasn't venting, it was a genuine question because he was confused by the wording, which is fair.

[Aniya_Estlihn]

Try criticize the game in jp forum. The mods will delete them in a flash 24/7.

Case in point, JP's Cosmic Exploration zones are dead in the water now after a suggestions thread to make it more fun and interesting was locked and deleted without warning.
They too are now experiencing the exact same kind of treatment we endure in regards to our feedback and criticism and many are not happy about it.

[Kaurhz]

You can leave feedback on the forums, but most of it doesn't qualify as that. It's just venting and throwing tantrums.

Look at how you are even constructing your argument. You have 0 self-reflection, and instead of actually pausing and asking yourself why, in 6-7 years, your feedback fell on deaf ears, you continue to spout your "criticism". Like really?

Take a step back and ask where it went wrong. It cannot possibly be because the "feedback" just comes out as spiteful, toxic waste most of the time, it's not because they don't want to make another exact copy of WoW (even though the base idea came from there), and it cannot be possible be because JP people will never outright tell you no, or that the fact SE has always been resistant to change and the direction they take.

Look at the damn topics on the front page:

Demiatma drop rates are unacceptable
FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE
Machinest Further Nerfed PvE? (this dude cannot even read the damn changes properly yet he is venting)
How disrepectfull
Who else is thinking of cancelling their sub these days?
So you acknowledge atma farm was awful but do it again 12 sec later?

Yeah, my dude, there is 0 hope forums will be taken seriously.

and like I told you, most of it is going to be anything but critical due to how frequently feedback has fallen on deaf ears, in combination with their community engagement simply doesn't exist, so I posit you the question -- Why ask people to leave feedback if you're going to ignore it or not engage with it? - This is one of the largest issues we have, simply because it comes across as ignoring... Why should I continue to leave structured feedback about the state of crafting when they have only showed signs of placed 'good' systems on top of bad systems, and these bad systems only serve to undermine what good can be done, e.g., placing expert recipes on an incredibly neutered crafting system, for example.

There is nothing to reflect about, lmao. As you yourself have said in this very post, they are resistant to change and the direction they take -- So why ask people to leave feedback when you're already following a mentality that contradicts the very purpose of leaving feedback in the first place? It doesn't really matter what the reason for it is when all of the reasons have the same result in this instance

Let's look at the topics then on the frontpage of the General Discussion which only accounts for the small amount of feedback ever left:

- Demiatma - Aka the stepchild of the dearly hated atma, released in a neutered form, because they don't know how to design a proper grind without subsequently diluting the value of it by locking it on 1500 tomestones, as opposed to appropriately distributing the grind, like they have literally done in the past. The biggest irony here is that much of this feedback gets diluted by people responding with "Well you just want it handed to you on a silver platter 20 minutes after logging in", without actually trying to engage with the posts to find out exactly why people don't like RNG-based grinds.

- FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE - How often has the feedback on Healers fallen on deaf or dismissive minds? How much feedback must have been left on the Healer subforum in the past 5 years. Their last response was "If you want engaging healing then go play an ultimate" - How often must people create sensible and reasoned feedback when this is their response.

- Machinist - LOL, you being serious?

- How Disrespectful - How often must Viera and Hrothgar players play the abandoned child arc before Square Enix come to the realization that what they are doing on continually patching out their mistake. Viera and Hrothgar have been treated abysmally since their release, how patient must people be with half measures done over 5 years?

- Who else is thinking of cancelling their sub these days? - How about stop trying to police the discussions that people have on the game, and how about you take a moment to self-reflect and consider the very fact that you're just as bad as everyone else that you are trying to laud over.

- So you acknowledge atma farm was awful but do it again 12 sec later? - Perfectly reasonable thread. Why chin dig at a bad feature and then subsequently release it? What is this meant to be an underhanded skit at the 2.0 players that endured the original atma? - Get a grip why don't you.

Yes, these forums will never be taken seriously, and as much as I agree that the onus is on the players... The feedback left is only going to be as good as the developers that are asking for that feedback... So once again I posit the question... Why ask players to leave feedback when your very mentality contradicts it... They are literally the author of this forum at this point, and everything it has become.

Further, you should probably take a moment to reflect yourself, and get some self-awareness whilst you're at it, because you are just as bad as the people supposedly 'venting and throwing tantrums'. If these threads are what qualifies, then I can assure you-- You're just as bad as everyone else, so get off your high horse lmao. Aggravated maybe? But crying and throwing tantrums? Nah.

There is nothing for players to reflect about when they've been ignored... Whether this is because of resistance to change, aggressive removal of threads and posts, or just simply dismissive responses to feedback, or not taking any past lessons learned and applying it to new feedback... The end result is always the same regardless of what the underlying reason is. People are just responding the same way the devs are, with apathy.

[Hallarem]

Some people have their whole personality linked to the game. The story is the best ever because they barely have touched other stories, same with MMOs. Critique makes things better if the devs listen to SOME of it.

But what really grinds my gears are people who expect you to owe them all achievements in the game and for you to clear content before you are allowed an opinion.

The game is in a rut, its just a repeat and it will probably keep steady numbers because its a hangout place, but spiritually this game is uninnovative, the worldbuilding is all over the place. Its just a mess of an MMO. SE can thank its luck they have a predatory housing system and lack of competition

[Valence]

You can leave feedback on the forums, but most of it doesn't qualify as that. It's just venting and throwing tantrums.

Look at how you are even constructing your argument. You have 0 self-reflection, and instead of actually pausing and asking yourself why, in 6-7 years, your feedback fell on deaf ears, you continue to spout your "criticism". Like really?

Take a step back and ask where it went wrong. It cannot possibly be because the "feedback" just comes out as spiteful, toxic waste most of the time, it's not because they don't want to make another exact copy of WoW (even though the base idea came from there), and it cannot be possible be because JP people will never outright tell you no, or that the fact SE has always been resistant to change and the direction they take.

Look at the damn topics on the front page:

Demiatma drop rates are unacceptable
FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE
Machinest Further Nerfed PvE? (this dude cannot even read the damn changes properly yet he is venting)
How disrepectfull
Who else is thinking of cancelling their sub these days?
So you acknowledge atma farm was awful but do it again 12 sec later?

Yeah, my dude, there is 0 hope forums will be taken seriously.

I'm curious. Why are you taking part in the discussions of these forums? What does interest you so that you actually take some time of your life to participate?

[Kohashi]

wall of text

They provided a forum for you to leave feedback, but lately, the forums have been reduced to mostly complaints and venting. I know they used to mention forum posts and feedback provided in the past, yet for a while, they no longer do that. I wonder why.. I'm sure nothing happened since the release of Dawntrail, riiight?????

I know that each of those topics could have been made to actually provide a meaningful, well-balanced take while also communicating where they fell short without sounding like a bitter, entitled toxic waste.

[Kohashi]

I'm curious. Why are you taking part in the discussions of these forums? What does interest you so that you actually take some time of your life to participate?

I am not sure you want my honest answer for that, but let's say the morning coffee tastes better.

[Kaurhz]

They provided a forum for you to leave feedback, but lately, the forums have been reduced to mostly complaints and venting. I know they used to mention forum posts and feedback provided in the past, yet for a while, they no longer do that. I wonder why.. I'm sure nothing happened since the release of Dawntrail, riiight?????

I know that each of those topics could have been made to actually provide a meaningful, well-balanced take while also communicating where they fell short without sounding like a bitter, entitled toxic waste.

Lately? The forums has been this way for a really really long time, at least the General Discussion has.. It's more apathetic these days than what was, but the players are not the sole reason for this. People have been asking for things for a really long time (and in a sensible fashion), and beyond a point it just feels like screaming in the void.

Those topics could have been many things, and if I am honest it is not just on the onus of the thread starter or even the people agreeing. Like, let's take this RNG grind for instance.. People have demonstrably hated RNG-based grinds.. They hated the OG Atma, they hated the Luminous Crystal grind, they hated the layered RNG on the Coven weapons.

Which all of this is fine if they want to experiment... But many people raising these complaints are just having people enter said threads with a paintbrush and splashing the "Y'all just don't want a grind and want it handed to you on a silver platter" response. How do you expect people to behave with their criticism when people aren't even responding or acting in good faith as a response. All of this is to say that even of those that want or try to promote sensible debate and feedback, need to realize that they are unironically part of the problem and co-architects of this place being a bitter and toxic waste as you so put it.