Demiatma drop rates are unacceptable

[Jestigeress]

Better than you who keep using "disingenuous" when arguing with people. You're basically invalidating everyone you disagree with. Guess who's the condescending now?

Also, if you want to make shit up, at least make it more believable.

NO sport that is you self projecting...
What ways have i invalidated anyone i simply said stated that its an issue of RNG and its inconsistency. If you got good luck you got done faster if your luck is awful your progress could be non existent for the time invested. I disagreed with the statement that the Drop rate average is 20% for the simple fact it is RNG. I never once said what others got as their drops was not true. Simply put I gave my experiences as an example to contrary and proof that the RNG causes inconsistency as is its nature. If you wish to discount my experiences how they happened for me then your the one invalidating here.

Just because I had a different experience in drops doesn't make what others received is wrong. Nor is what i experienced wrong ether it is just different!

[Mikey_R]

NO sport that is you self projecting...
What ways have i invalidated anyone i simply said stated that its an issue of RNG and its inconsistency. If you got good luck you got done faster if your luck is awful your progress could be non existent for the time invested. I disagreed with the statement that the Drop rate average is 20% for the simple fact it is RNG. I never once said what others got as their drops was not true. Simply put I gave my experiences as an example to contrary and proof that the RNG causes inconsistency as is its nature. If you wish to discount my experiences how they happened for me then your the one invalidating here.

Just because I had a different experience in drops doesn't make what others received is wrong. Nor is what i experienced wrong ether it is just different!

To show how full of rubbish you are, let’s go through every post you have made and how you have inaccurately portrayed OC.

The first 2 posts here: Post #28 and Post #3. Both of these are just claims that the drop rate is a lie, not much here.

Our first claims about the content then come from Post #123. To summarise, 100 hours in OC and open world FATEs, only 1 demiatma, almost all job stones and almost enough material to max 1 gear set. Not even Knowledge level 20.

In this post alone, if you have spend 100 hours purely on Fates/CEs, you will have gotten more than 1 demiatma. It is a statistical impossibility that that is the case. There is also the fact you claim to have enough upgrade materials for a full set of OC gear, the amount of Fates/CEs required would get you to KL20 easily, unless you have been constantly dying and returning rather than being revived, which no sane person would do.

Now, we move onto Post #135. The start is roughly the same as the previous, but we have more claims later, namely, the 45 Aetherspun Gold. Considering, this is only dropped from chests, it shows you have likely been grinding them out, which means you have not been focusing on the FATEs/CEs at all. However, that isn’t even the best bit. You then claim to have 27 X-Fixatives, an item you can ONLY obtain by doing Forked Tower, which you can only do at KL20, which you have claimed to never have hit. It is a direct contradiction to your previous statements.

There is then a deleted post, then Post #137, which has nothing.

Post #139 then bashes the data that is right in front of them. One statement that is telling is that it doesn’t account for outliers. Which might be true, but the problem is, your outliers are so far out, that are a statistical impossibility.

Post #141 then makes the same claims in regards to Aetherspun Gold and X-Fixatives. However, the count is higher, which means you have farmed more of it. I am also going to assume you still aren’t KL20.

Now we get a bit more info on OC, Post #146 details how you have spent ~30 hours in OC. You say you should be KL20, but returned a few times early on and are still at KL9, if you have been going at FATEs/CEs consistently, you would be a much higher level.

However, the most damning bit of evidence comes in the next paragraph. Aetherspun gold drops from CEs at a 55% average drop chance? I should be swimming in them considering I have done 173 CEs at this point. I have 1, from a chest. The only place you can get them is a chest, they do not drop from CEs (it is a statistical impossibility for a 55% drop chance to fail 173 times). Then, onto X-Fixatives, 100% drop chance from silver chests? Don’t be silly, I have opened a fre silver chests and have exactly 0 X-Fixatives. Again, you have to do Forked Tower to get X-Fixatives.

And, to complete the list up to this point, Post #153. Again, just dismissing people because they do not believe you, which, at this point, can you blame them?

So, to go over it all, you claim to have 30 hours in OC and not hit KL20, which means you have not been pursuing FATEs/CEs, the main way to get KLs. However, you also claim to have almost enough upgrade materials to max out the OC gear, which requires an absolute ton of silver, not only to buy the gear, but to upgrade it as well. As a reference, I only have 2 sets of Aetherspun Silver to collect to get a set to +1 and have almost mastered 7 jobs. You then claim to have X-Fixatives, which require Forked Tower, however, you have never hit KL20, which is a requirement to enter. You then claimed that Aetherspun Gold drops from CEs and X-Fixatives drop from Silver chests, both of which are false. Not to mention, if you are hyper fixating on chests, which you appear to be doing, you aren’t engaging in the FATEs/CEs which drop the demiatmas in the first place.

However, we can also extrapolate that you have spent 70 hours in DT zones and got 1 drop. I maxed out Kozamuka Shared Fates for 2 there and got close to maxing Yak Tel for 1 (the rest I got in OC). That was one afternoon. There is zero chance you got only 1 demiatma from 70 hours of FATE farming and, considering what else you have been saying, I am willing to bet you were doing things that were not related to FATE farming, which shouldn’t be added to the time for collecting these demiatmas.

So, you have lied constantly and likely massively mis-represented your experience. Why should we not take your claims with a massive pinch of salt.

[Valence]

In this post alone, if you have spend 100 hours purely on Fates/CEs, you will have gotten more than 1 demiatma. It is a statistical impossibility that that is the case.

Mathematically wrong. The proper statement should be "It is a statistical improbability that that is the case".
You still believe that words and definitions do matter, right?

[fulminating]

Mathematically wrong. The proper statement should be "It is a statistical improbability that that is the case".
You still believe that words and definitions do matter, right?

Nah there can still be statistical impossibilities - consider the infamous minceraft speedrun the other year.
Let’s call it a 15 minute cycle of 2 fates and 1 ce, or 12 rolls of the dice per hour.
That would be 12 * 100 or 1200.
There is a 30% chance of a demiatma dropping. This can be expressed as 0.3
Then there’s that thing I half remember I think it’s something like (1-n)^1200 in this case where n is 0.3
This gives us the chance of an individual doing 100 hours and getting no demiatma*.
This number is 1.311137x10^-186
As a percentage, this is 1.311137x10^-184%
For reference there are 10^82 atoms in the universe.

I suspect I have come adrift somewhere but I’m happy enough calling that an impossibility.
*assuming no glitches/they remembered to pick up the quest etc.

[Mikey_R]

Mathematically wrong. The proper statement should be "It is a statistical improbability that that is the case".
You still believe that words and definitions do matter, right?

Only up to a certain point. Once odds are low enough, it is deemed a statistical impossibility.

Whilst fulminating gave an example for the absurdity of the initial claim, I want to give a real world example with more realistic figures.

Jeeq has already estimated the drop rate of Demiatmas in CE to be ~20%, going by my CE clear rate of 173, this gives an odds of not getting a Demiatma in the region of 10E-17. Considering the drop rate is 20% and the chance of that not happening is 0.00000000000000002% after 173 rolls, it is absurd. It is also worth noting that the difference in determining what is classed as a statistical improbability and what is a statistical impossibility is very arbitrary and no, it isn't the case of it has to be impossible for it to be a statistical impossibility.

If you want it put in a different way, rolling those odds once a second would, on average, hit every ~3.2 billion years.

So yes, words matter, in this case, statistical impossibility is an appropriate term, though statistical improbability is also acceptable.

As for my low knowledge level yes I revived myself thousands of times.

Don't believe that. If you had done as many CEs as you claimed to have done, you would have been revived after, no questions asked.

Every chest and ce getting the gold spuns (Notice how I said gold not silver, another thing you could have gotten me on , oh right you accused me of not farming enough Silver).

You mean the silver/gold pieces and not the Aetherspun silver/gold? *checks*, no, you said Aether spun gold in your post, which does not drop from CEs, only chests. Which I did address. Part of me wonders if you do not even know what items are what.

The truth is I exaggerated a lot but the results of the amount of the items i received are correct.

Exaggerating a lie is still a lie.

For Example Fixatives I exaggerated when I said I got them from Chests and CE's in reality I got them from Golden Pot Chests (which is in OC zone outside of the FT raid),

Source? Not one place have I seen the claim that you can get X-Fixatives from anything outside FT. So I am going to say you are again lying, especially with the amount you have, it isn't that uncommon, it would be common knowledge.

but the odds of that , i shouldn't have gotten any of them in those odds because of how much layered RNG is in those silly little Bunny pot chests!

So you got a lot of items with a very low chance (which, as of yet is unconfirmed, but not likely), but you never got a Demiatma drop that would have a much higher drop chance, even outside of OC?

Here is another truth that frankly greatly upsets me... I have no desire to do Forked tower yet here i am with upgrades that as of right now are only beneficial for progressing through Forked Tower. I cannot put them on the MB & I can't trade them away. To me they are useless right now.

Again proving you haven't been into forked tower, yet have upgrade mats that can only be obtained in forked tower.

On the DT open World fates the Demiatma drops should've been higher... another quirk I was noticing while doing them , if you grouped up it seemed as only one person in the party was actually getting them (at least according to Local chat). Now if you got lucky and got the drops, congratulations, but not everyone had that experience.

People complained about the lop-sidedness of a similar grind in Bozja, with the main complaint being that it should be easier to farm these items inside the field op instance that it should be outside, which is what we got. Also, it is perfectly possible for it to drop on multiple people in the same party, saw it myself.

Lastly i am surprised no one called me out on the 100+ hour claim... in a week there's only 168 hours not to mention on some of the servers I play on some of them were being DDOS'd and having technical issues... I pretty much no-lifed that week.

So you admit you are full of rubbish. Also, by the time you had made your post, OC had been out for about 1.5 weeks,. or ~288 hours. Even if you spent half your time asleep, that is still 144 hours, plenty of time for someone to no life a game. I should know, I put in over 100 hours in FF7 Rebirth in the first week.

Look you disagree with what I experienced, that is good and completely fair, but understand I do not dismiss what you and others experienced.

Except you did dismiss the claims, despite the evidence, then make impossible claims. For me, it is the making false claims about something then judging that thing based on those false claims. You are not fairly judging the content, just your own imagination of the content.

[Jestigeress]

Only up to a certain point. Once odds are low enough, it is deemed a statistical impossibility.

You want to try again, hate to break it to you, but ya haven't disproven anything I have said its obvious you disagree with it (trying to disprove someone else's opinion or viewpoint is an effort in futility). for that Bless your heart!
As for judging or dismissing , no that is your assumption and yet to be proven, only thing I have done is give my Opinion on my experiences, as for my claims on fixatives (as an example), I can do a simple google search for x-fixative on FFXIV found a thread on reddit stating they heard from another player got a fixative drop off of the Gold Pot chest (bunny fate Coffer), but when they tried didn't get any kind of drop like that over 50 attempts (its just a matter of Luck). In reality it is just heresy in other words folks giving accounts of their experiences. If my experiences and my opinions offend you so much well sorry you feel that way and appreciate the concern. Though if it is that offensive to you I would advise talking to a therapist because you seem to have an issue in separating opinion and viewpoints from facts. I am not trying to argue or disprove anyone when I give my viewpoint, just telling you what it has been for me... Anyways thanks for the useless chatter and Bless your heart.

[Jeeqbit]

found a thread on reddit stating they heard from another player got a fixative drop off of the Gold Pot chest (bunny fate Coffer), but when they tried didn't get any kind of drop like that over 50 attempts (its just a matter of Luck)

It's one thing to get 1 drop and make a bold claim about it.

But when you've got 27 Atma from 106 CEs, clearly 100 CEs will get you more than 1 guaranteed (and most likely way, way more).

Let's also note that all the people who contributed mixed data had a lot more than 1 Atma after 100 or less CEs.

There is one case where you might not get drops and that's if you don't get gold rating. But a tank can get this solo with tank stance, or usually you will get it in a party.

[Jestigeress]

It's one thing to get 1 drop and make a bold claim about it.

But when you've got 27 Atma from 106 CEs, clearly 100 CEs will get you more than 1 guaranteed (and most likely way, way more).

Let's also note that all the people who contributed mixed data had a lot more than 1 Atma after 100 or less CEs.

There is one case where you might not get drops and that's if you don't get gold rating. But a tank can get this solo with tank stance, or usually you will get it in a party.

Normally you would be correct in fact in both Bozja and Eureka it worked in that Manner and it seemed to work with others that I had observed through their Youtube content such as Meoni and Cole Evyx. Though both content creators still recommended that if you were not getting drops in OC to try open World Fates especially for one demiatma you could only get from one CE inside OC (the Verdigris Demiatma I believe). Which is why on the 2nd day I decided to double dip I had regular Jobs that needed leveling and could use a lot of bi-color gemstones so i switched my focus to open world, on my Pally i usually got gold on fates but i was noticing that atma was being rewarded to a random person in the party Which to me means it was a Layered rng systems one rng that the atma might drop and a 2nd one being 1 in 8 (or however many party members you had ), would then win the roll of the drop.

[Mikey_R]

You want to try again, hate to break it to you, but ya haven't disproven anything I have said its obvious you disagree with it (trying to disprove someone else's opinion or viewpoint is an effort in futility). for that Bless your heart!
As for judging or dismissing , no that is your assumption and yet to be proven, only thing I have done is give my Opinion on my experiences, as for my claims on fixatives (as an example), I can do a simple google search for x-fixative on FFXIV found a thread on reddit stating they heard from another player got a fixative drop off of the Gold Pot chest (bunny fate Coffer), but when they tried didn't get any kind of drop like that over 50 attempts (its just a matter of Luck). In reality it is just heresy in other words folks giving accounts of their experiences. If my experiences and my opinions offend you so much well sorry you feel that way and appreciate the concern. Though if it is that offensive to you I would advise talking to a therapist because you seem to have an issue in separating opinion and viewpoints from facts. I am not trying to argue or disprove anyone when I give my viewpoint, just telling you what it has been for me... Anyways thanks for the useless chatter and Bless your heart.

I know I haven't 'disproven' your points, I have just made observations about what you are saying and have come to a conclusion and that conclusion is nothing adds up in what you are saying. For example:

If you could get X-Fixatives from gold chests, as claimed by a reddit thread you decided not to link (even then, it was second hand info, so not the most reliable source), you stated that they didn't get one after 50 chests. No, we don't know what the drop rate is, but, assuming 1/50 for the sake of argument, then taking into account you claimed to have at least 27, that is somewhere in the region of 1350 chests needed to open. Disregarding the RNG side of it, that is a ton of chests, but let's be generous and say you got really lucky, double odds, 1/25 chests, that is still 675 gold chests needed to be opened. Even before we start anything else, that is a lot of time, assuming 5 mins per chest, that is almost 66 hours just from that and we haven't even taken into account getting the fortune carrots in the first place.

However, even if we grant that, all of that time is being spent NOT farming for Demiatma, as nothing you have been doing by this point requires FATE/CE completion. This si why I also stated that doing anything other than Fates/CEs shouldn't count towards the progress of the Demiatmas, as you aren't doing anything to progress with it.

So again, based on things you have said and some very reasonable assumptions, I can come to the conclusion that you are not telling the whole truth and highly exaggerating your own claims to make it seem worse than it actually is.

I'm actually glad that all the people who cried about 1500 tomes get to suffer now. They got what they asked for. Mindless useless long grinds for a weapon that isnt even worth using.

As someone who complained about the 1500 tome grind, I am happy with the grind so far. Part of me wants them to add another way to get the weapons as, once you have the Demiatmas, it is just another tome grind (ie farm a set of Demiatmas again per weapon), otherwise, all good here.

[Jestigeress]

To show how full of rubbish you are, let’s go through every post you have made and how you have inaccurately portrayed OC.

First I am not dismissing anyone 's statements it is completely fair to have doubts about what I have said. I did disagree that it should be 20% drop rate for everyone, because that wasn't my experience, that wasn't my truth so in my opinion I had a different result If you disagree with that also, that is totally fair.

As for my low knowledge level yes I revived myself thousands of times. It was so bad I am surprised i didn't get an achievement for it, which is comical for me to say, and equally cringe to think about.
The upgrade Materials... I listed them because I was being (in my opinion now), improbable drops on them. Every chest and ce getting the gold spuns (Notice how I said gold not silver, another thing you could have gotten me on , oh right you accused me of not farming enough Silver). The truth is I exaggerated a lot but the results of the amount of the items i received are correct. For Example Fixatives I exaggerated when I said I got them from Chests and CE's in reality I got them from Golden Pot Chests (which is in OC zone outside of the FT raid), but the odds of that , i shouldn't have gotten any of them in those odds because of how much layered RNG is in those silly little Bunny pot chests!

Here is another truth that frankly greatly upsets me... I have no desire to do Forked tower yet here i am with upgrades that as of right now are only beneficial for progressing through Forked Tower. I cannot put them on the MB & I can't trade them away. To me they are useless right now.
On the DT open World fates the Demiatma drops should've been higher... another quirk I was noticing while doing them , if you grouped up it seemed as only one person in the party was actually getting them (at least according to Local chat). Now if you got lucky and got the drops, congratulations, but not everyone had that experience.
Lastly i am surprised no one called me out on the 100+ hour claim... in a week there's only 168 hours not to mention on some of the servers I play on some of them were being DDOS'd and having technical issues... I pretty much no-lifed that week.

Look you disagree with what I experienced, that is good and completely fair, but understand I do not dismiss what you and others experienced. In fact i am glad you got through the grind to enjoy the rewards

Have a good one now.