The Atma Complaint: Length of Time/Acquisition Rate vs. Long-term Investment

[crovius]

I'm all for long grinds, but when I don't see a single Atma in 4 hours farming in a targeted area, that's when I start to think this is bs

[Jeeqbit]

I'm all for long grinds, but when I don't see a single Atma in 4 hours farming in a targeted area, that's when I start to think this is bs

It's not like it's the only grind though. There's Knowledge level and Phantom job levels and coins to farm. Atma is virtually just being collecting in the background of all that.

Even if you farm FATEs outside OC, there's all the gemstone rewards and the mount you could be progressing to. And if you have all those, you can sell gemstone vouchers for gil.

Either way, you're getting things for your time.

[Nero-Voidstails]

the problem is when most people have one and I aren't even half way done I am sorry but I see a problem

[Jangles]

I like long grinds, but I like being able to see the progress of my grind, I wouldn't mind them asking me to grind for 4 months straight if I could just see actual progress. I've gone about 5 hours without 1 atma now while people have completed their relic in 1 day.
I'm also fine with some rng but this is too random, the way bozja did the drops were good (it still needed to be a bit grindier imo)

[HyperiusUltima]

the problem is when most people have one and I aren't even half way done I am sorry but I see a problem

Well that’s what RNG is: Random Number Generation. A drop rate. Generally I’ve had times where I’ve sat around for 3h farming and didn’t get one, but just taking my time and playing with others in the instance is where my time goes. The Devs made a smart move to make the zones giving Atmas current expansion zones, since this not only helps people work towards another thing, it still rewards you compared to farming in old zones without Shared FATE.

Regardless, you’re going to be rolling the dice. Be glad this is a one-time task.

[ForteNightshade]

Someone brought this up in another thread, which I think highlights the problem. People don't like feeling their time is wasted due to the fickleness of RNG. When you put 20-30 hours into content and walk away with 4 Atmas while your friend who put in less than half that has 8, it's going to be frustrating. Heck, this is why the Savage loot system has so much backlash.

I think requiring significantly more Atmas but making them guaranteed drops; or nearly so, would be received better if only because it eliminates that sense of unfairness. There's a reason most gacha games have a built in pity system. People simply lose interest when RNG screws them no matter how you justification its necessity. Additionally, if you happen to get more than three of any Atmas they are completely worthless since you can't even exchange them. Making it even more of a "feelsbadman".

[Valence]

Ok, so I’ve been seeing a lot of ridicule for the devs because of the fact we brought back Atmas - the dreaded step in the Zodiac Weapon that had you farming FATEs for hours on end. I understand that this is a problem for people, but let’s be honest while I play Devil’s Advocate.

There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t have a long-term investment for relic.

The fact people complained about Endwalker’s Tome Relic being “lazy”(which it really was) because it was just a part of even your Tomestone grind for EVERY. SINGLE. STEP. makes me wonder if people just forgot what the other relics are like.

Bozja Relic was seen as the best way, given you could participate in Field Operations or go FATE grind in other Areas(which is also beneficial since you farm up FATEs for Shared FATE now with the relic’s target being Dawntrail areas).

The main problem though is that the moment the player base gets the slightest inconvenience from RNG being built into obtaining the relic, people complain they can’t finish it because of the drop rates or because they don’t have time. THIS IS FINE. Why? Because you’re supposed to take it at your pace like other relics.

This isn’t a horse race, and never has been - and I’m going to dip into a tangent for a moment here because this is relevant: Hyper-consumerism is a problem for the gaming market because the consumer is constantly looking for new forms of content nowadays that isn’t recycled and isn’t the same. Let’s say I play Helldivers 2. It’s a live service, and doing the same things daily gets boring after a while. Well, tough luck because if you wanted to progress, you needed to play - but what about when the content is exhausted?

Then the player moves on to a different game. The fact we’re all in a rush to consume the new content shows how much of a struggle it is unless some kind of long-form content is established; Occult Crescent and Forked Tower are it along with the relic grind. This happens more often than not with live service since a few days down the road the XIV player count drops in a downhill trend until next patch, which will make it spike again. For those who solely play XIV, this content is made to last all the way to 7.3, and I bet you it will with the peek I got at Forked Tower.

That design is stupid for one reason only: someone that doesn't have as much as time as you do, or doesn't like the methods required to farm those atmas, may get shafted by the rng, while someone like you that enjoy it, may also get invertly shafted and get incredible luck making it a lot shorter as a result.
This is not fine. This has never been about the long term investment, it's been about 1) the limited methods required and 2) the inequalities between players in order to achieve it.

[Qyoon]

grinding is okay, but RNG if a shitty and unfair system.
I got a lot of time onmy hands so it's boring but i am close to done.
The problem is when you have less playtime you are just here hoping and rolling dice witch is completely stupid.
This is not something you are grinding or working on.
This is just rolling dice, lazyness by squarenix, but i guess low effort is their thing with this game.

[ForteNightshade]

That design is stupid for one reason only: someone that doesn't have as much as time as you do, or doesn't like the methods required to farm those atmas, may get shafted by the rng, while someone like you that enjoy it, may also get invertly shafted and get incredible luck making it a lot shorter as a result.
This is not fine. This has never been about the long term investment, it's been about 1) the limited methods required and 2) the inequalities between players in order to achieve it.

This is an excellent point and I want to piggyback off it with an example of my own.

I work for myself, thus can make my own hours and grind somewhat to my leisure. In comparison, my friend works full time with a two year old and another baby on the way. She has maybe two hours a day, at best, to do anything beside work and be Mom. For her, logging in and spending those few hours getting absolutely nowhere feels awful and completely demotivates her from even bothering. Yes, she'll eventually get it months down the road unless she's insanely lucky, but it certainly won't be fun.

Like Jangles said above, it's the lack of progression that frustrates people. Nobody likes spending their time and feeling like they accomplished nothing for their effort.

[Awful]

Regardless, you’re going to be rolling the dice. Be glad this is a one-time task.

Doesn't that kinda make it worse though? You got your atmas now you're free! I don't think that's the feeling most people are thinking, I can't speak for anyone but myself this grind is a road block behind RNG it's an illusion of a grind to distract you to try the area out so that if you don't like it you can "grind" elsewhere. I like grinds more than anyone but not the RNG grind didn't work in ARR with atmas and the fact they cannot think of anything new and went back to atmas is a very strange choice.

The fact that I can't even level jobs because SE said so is also a very strange decision like all of this just screams recycled progression, sure OC can be fun at times but you'll always have this nagging feeling behind it all that your 8 hour session got you 3 atmas when another person got 6-7 because of luck. Being glad the atma grind makes me wonder why it was even put into OC in the first place.