The Atma Complaint: Length of Time/Acquisition Rate vs. Long-term Investment

[HyperiusUltima]

Ok, so I’ve been seeing a lot of ridicule for the devs because of the fact we brought back Atmas - the dreaded step in the Zodiac Weapon that had you farming FATEs for hours on end. I understand that this is a problem for people, but let’s be honest while I play Devil’s Advocate.

There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t have a long-term investment for relic.

The fact people complained about Endwalker’s Tome Relic being “lazy”(which it really was) because it was just a part of even your Tomestone grind for EVERY. SINGLE. STEP. makes me wonder if people just forgot what the other relics are like.

Bozja Relic was seen as the best way, given you could participate in Field Operations or go FATE grind in other Areas(which is also beneficial since you farm up FATEs for Shared FATE now with the relic’s target being Dawntrail areas).

The main problem though is that the moment the player base gets the slightest inconvenience from RNG being built into obtaining the relic, people complain they can’t finish it because of the drop rates or because they don’t have time. THIS IS FINE. Why? Because you’re supposed to take it at your pace like other relics.

This isn’t a horse race, and never has been - and I’m going to dip into a tangent for a moment here because this is relevant: Hyper-consumerism is a problem for the gaming market because the consumer is constantly looking for new forms of content nowadays that isn’t recycled and isn’t the same. Let’s say I play Helldivers 2. It’s a live service, and doing the same things daily gets boring after a while. Well, tough luck because if you wanted to progress, you needed to play - but what about when the content is exhausted?

Then the player moves on to a different game. The fact we’re all in a rush to consume the new content shows how much of a struggle it is unless some kind of long-form content is established; Occult Crescent and Forked Tower are it along with the relic grind. This happens more often than not with live service since a few days down the road the XIV player count drops in a downhill trend until next patch, which will make it spike again. For those who solely play XIV, this content is made to last all the way to 7.3, and I bet you it will with the peek I got at Forked Tower.

[Ankhira]

I think RNG is fine mostly but I do think the drop rate is a little too low, I got my first relic so it's not a complaint that I don't have it yet, I think both parties are being at each other's throat and SE's way of doing this seems okay even if I think the rates are a little low, I guess one side will always be unhappy, the cycle of an MMO at its finest. Casuals complain > Devs listen > More hardcore players complain > devs listen > repeat

You saying it's not a horse race I completely agree with, I feel like modern gaming has pushed "FOMO" so hard that people just get FOMO from anything that could make them feel like they're "behind" even when its permanent content, it's weird to see

[BokoToloko]

Long-term investment for the first weapon and easy grind for the following ones is the healthiest option to please both audiences.

Also, there is not a single reason to need the Phantom Weapons ASAP. If you need a good weapon grinded at a more leisurely pace, you can either buy a Ceremonial Weapon, do M8N weekly run seven times for the Historia weapon or do EX4 for weapons with the same ilvl. Anyone burning themselves down for the need to have a relic weapon are only making it hard on themselves for no good reason, but because of good ol' FOMO.

[Catwho]

I want to say that I appreciate that the FATES can also be done in the regular overworld maps like the OG atma grind.

I hadn't quite finished my Free Markets, and the overworld FATE trains are back up and running because of this. I knocked out most of Yak'tel finally yesterday.

And it means we can also farm bicolor gems in the overworld too.

Right now my plan is to make out Knowledge and try to collect as many field notes as I can from CEs, and if I'm still missing atma at that point, finish out the collecting in the overworld.

I love grind CHOICES.

[Jeeqbit]

It's day 3 and people are saying it's too much. Let's see what they think when it's been 7 days. Just you know, 1 week. It's not much.

What this has all proven is that many players are not long-term thinkers. They can only process the immediate moment. If the immediate moment is grindy, they don't like it. But if the immediate moment is instant completion like the EW relic, they are bored.

So my suggestions for the devs is to ignore people who don't want it to be grindy because they are not thinking long-term.

[yesnt]

What this has all proven is that many players are not long-term thinkers. They can only process the immediate moment..

My sub is running out again.

Since this is all we get for now, I am just farming my weapon then come back in 7.3 maybe, for the next update. Content doesn't have a long-term grind, this is just an illusion.

[Misutoraru]

You saying it's not a horse race I completely agree with, I feel like modern gaming has pushed "FOMO" so hard that people just get FOMO from anything that could make them feel like they're "behind" even when its permanent content, it's weird to see

I am afraid the whole OC structure is FOMO.
It was FOMO back in Eureka, it improved slightly in Bozja and now OC is still FOMO.

It isn’t so bad like other MMO but it is still an issue SE have not yet able to address. Same happens to deep dungeon in EW.

SE did try to do something to help revive old content like moggle tomestone. However, it is clearly the mindset of FOMO is strongly implanted when they create the contents. Any event try to revive it is just band-aid. They need to address the core issue

[BokoToloko]

I am afraid the whole OC structure is FOMO.
It was FOMO back in Eureka, it improved slightly in Bozja and now OC is still FOMO.

It isn’t so bad like other MMO but it is still an issue SE have not yet able to address. Same happens to deep dungeon in EW.

SE did try to do something to help revive old content like moggle tomestone. However, it is clearly the mindset of FOMO is strongly implanted when they create the contents. Any event try to revive it is just band-aid. They need to address the core issue

Permanent content isn't FOMO by its very essence. There is nothing to miss out. Even when the hype dies down, nothing other than people, which Square Enix can only spur to an extent, ever stops you from complete none of the previous Field Operations. And neither Eureka nor Bozja were impossible or hard to complete due to a lack of people, even expansions after their release. I should know, since I leveled through Eureka, got the Proto-Ozma, two Eureka relics and the Elemental Armor entirely during Endwalker.

FOMO content is the one that explicitly comes with a timer, like Seasonal Event Rewards, and no chance of it resurfacing back again or, if it does resurface, it comes with strings attached (like being moved to the store). FOMO content gives something that you CAN miss out, hence fear missing it. Anything else is just the players' own unfounded fears. And the reason for FOMO lies way beyond SE and straight into the complex issue in current day society that is the fast-paced consumerism, a problem in which both companies and customers have taken part.

Because, again, you DON'T need the Phantom Weapons. At all. They're not mandatory and they're not even the optimal weapons (that would be the Savage weapons). Square Enix hasn't given any incentive or time limit to get them. They're, to say it plainly, simply aesthetic choices. Hell, you don't even need to do Occult Crescent to get most rewards because several are available at the MB.

[Ankhira]

I am afraid the whole OC structure is FOMO.
It was FOMO back in Eureka, it improved slightly in Bozja and now OC is still FOMO.

It isn’t so bad like other MMO but it is still an issue SE have not yet able to address. Same happens to deep dungeon in EW.

SE did try to do something to help revive old content like moggle tomestone. However, it is clearly the mindset of FOMO is strongly implanted when they create the contents. Any event try to revive it is just band-aid. They need to address the core issue

Can you explain how to me, I don't mean to dismiss your point, but to my feeling, the content isn't going anywhere, I did Eureka for the first time ever in EW with a friend and I got all the rewards just the same as people got them back in Stormblood, this type of content will last all expansion and in future expansions people will still be doing this

[Misutoraru]

Can you explain how to me, I don't mean to dismiss your point, but to my feeling, the content isn't going anywhere, I did Eureka for the first time ever in EW with a friend and I got all the rewards just the same as people got them back in Stormblood, this type of content will last all expansion and in future expansions people will still be doing this

What I meant is when it is still the FOM contents, there are many players in the instant and searching for party is not hard and the fight will be fast. Once the hype cool down it is not impossible to do but either PF, find someone from FC/friend to help. in PF usually could get a small party on weekend, Bozja usually fill up faster, Eureka so far in PF need some luck, with DC travel the matter get worse.
When Bozja was still flesh content, i have my 2nd relic and clear the story in about a month or 2. Eureka, I return when ShB was a month away, and I am currently still stuck in first island XD.

other route would be finding help from FC, can say it is more a "me" problem. I have some help with FC friends at the begining in Eureka but knowing they already done the whole Eureka + my online time isnt fix everyday. I feel I could not repaid their kindness, so I tend to PF or shout in the map.

may be FOMO is the wrong word, it is like any content when it first come out getting it done will be quick and painless. When the "best before date" expire, players have less or no incentive to return or rerun those content. I remember back in ARR before daily roulette is a thing, the 3 Alliance Raid could get over 2 hrs queue and still not able to popped.