Please Stop Genderlocking Gear

[velkettin]

This tbh, but this thread has quite a few aggressive people really that will yell you down the second you dare say something that goes agaisnt what they say, the amount of people in this thread that got called homophobic or bigots for not wanting this is actually crazy, I would just give as advice to ignore them as honestly there's no discussion to be had with them

waaaaah, waaaaaaaaah, why can't i cry about how objectionable being forced to witness gender nonconformity is and how men aren't allowed to look like men anymore without being called a bigot : (((( those totally aren't things every garden variety bigot gets mad at : ((((((

[SophiaDL]

waaaaah, waaaaaaaaah, why can't i cry about how objectionable being forced to witness gender nonconformity is and how men aren't allowed to look like men anymore without being called a bigot : (((( those totally aren't things every garden variety bigot gets mad at : ((((((

Thank you for being exhibit 1 !

[Granyala]

Both your first and second points were just your feelings. Neither were facts, which makes them invalid arguments and not of much use to read.

Well DUH... Sherlock.
We are talking about clothing here, naturally it is all subjective opinion.

From a technical perspective, there is nothing holding them back. Given that they already designed 2 distinct items, DEV effort is not the reason why they did this, as it would be the same. What does that leave us?

The DEVs did not think it would fit the males according to their design vision. Design vision is part of any game, just like technical aspects. After all, others WILL have to see your glam, whether they like it or not, so your choices also affect others play. DEVs have to consider that aspect too, you know?

Now, you can argue them being inconsistent in said vision.
I would completely agree, once you start unlocking such gear you should do away with the locks completely. Pending manpower, as these items are typically not auto-scalable from female->male and vice versa, thus need to be re-designed by hand. Even the textures may not work due to different stretching / vertex structure. That is quite some effort.
IMHO the consistency ship sailed when they made the "casino-bunny-slu- *cough* lady" outfit available for men) but ultimately it's their game and their prerogative to implement things according to their tastes.

As players we are in a take it or leave it situation. There is no OBJECTIVE argument against their design vision. We can agree with it. We can disagree but we cannot OBJECTIVELY argue against it.

Some people want the glam on males, that is not objective that is their TASTE. This is a legitimate wish, naturally, but lets not pretend you have some moral high ground over me by arguing "facts". You do not.

This tbh, but this thread has quite a few aggressive people really that will yell you down the second you dare say something that goes agaisnt what they say, the amount of people in this thread that got called homophobic or bigots for not wanting this is actually crazy, I would just give as advice to ignore them as honestly there's no discussion to be had with them

I'll admit it: I was bored and thought I poke the hornets nest a bit with an unpopular opinion. Don't worry, I can take the flak. :'D

[itachi-otsutsuki]

Thank you for being exhibit 1 !

Bruh someone literally said 'begone Satan' to a lgbt person. (which that comment got removed btw). I don't remember what was said before but there was definitely outright lgbtq hatred as the sole reason for not lifting the locks. Again you are free to voice your opinion, but if you are a bigot we are also free to call you out for that. That's free speech. Call it 'aggressive' all you want, being a bigot is also aggressive.

[programcanaan]

We already have plenty "open chest" outfits that circumvent the issue by simply... giving the ladies a bra, it's a fair compromise, and it is already done for a few pieces, from very old ones like the Uraeus Coat, to more recent ones like most of the Dark Horse sets

See that's the thing there's always something the male can do that the female cannot do which is why using the guise of equality is a bit silly. On top of that the vocal minority turning the developers who've been more than accommodating in recent years into oppressors yet again is quite unfair.

[PyurBlue]

Gender locking gear is high-key fine with me, due to male and female figures....and clothes needing to fit said figures, but class/job locking has got to go.........

Wouldn't the same argument apply to race lock? Lalas can't use other race's models. The same goes for Male Roe. It doesn't stop them from sharing gear. The gear keeps the theme and is adjusted to the body. That's what people are asking for, and it's something SE already has to do.

[Granyala]

See that's the thing there's always something the male can do that the female cannot do which is why using the guise of equality is a bit silly. On top of that the vocal minority turning the developers who've been more than accommodating in recent years into oppressors yet again is quite unfair.

Well uuuh .. technically, nothing is stopping women from running around bare chested.
Might be uncomfortable though, similar to men running round without a loincloth.

I do wonder whether women being bare-chested would negatively affect hit rate of male humanoid enemies. :'D

[EdenElsewhere]

Let's just cut through all the crap right now:

"This does not look good on men", or "Men should be masculine", are not actual reasons to to keep men from wearing the stockings with garter belts.

Nor is "What if teens playing this game see this" because that is a parent's job, not the goddamn world's (plus your teen has already likely seen worse by now). It is a parents job to determine what their kid sees when they turn on their computer.

There is not a single argument for why men should not have gotten the stockings (not even the actually rather decent "What about the game's own personal choice of aesthetics?" because men already have a few pairs of stockings.) and I have yet to see any actually decent argument proposed in favor of keeping the stockings genderlocked/varianted.

Reasons for why they should not do the gender lock/variant are better though:
1. Less dev work as a whole (if we presume they don't have just a slacks generator at this point)
2. Keeping customer trust (these were stockings in the photo on the live letter. They were on the female model, however, that is my first impression, which means I was expecting stockings)
3. Less moderator work as a whole (less of these threads!)
4. More variance in glamours
5. ACTUALLY KEEPING IN LINE WITH THE FACT IT IS A COSPLAY GLAMOUR.
6. Making the people who wanted the stockings on their men happy, as very few (if any) people would have quit the game over stockings, and if they did, well, that's their own issue and they probably should have quit the game a long time back.

[SophiaDL]

Let's just cut through all the crap right now:

"This does not look good on men", or "Men should be masculine", are not actual reasons to to keep men from wearing the stockings with garter belts.

Nor is "What if teens playing this game see this" because that is a parent's job, not the goddamn world's (plus your teen has already likely seen worse by now). It is a parents job to determine what their kid sees when they turn on their computer.

There is not a single argument for why men should not have gotten the stockings (not even the actually rather decent "What about the game's own personal choice of aesthetics?" because men already have a few pairs of stockings.) and I have yet to see any actually decent argument proposed in favor of keeping the stockings genderlocked/varianted.

Reasons for why they should not do the gender lock/variant are better though:
1. Less dev work as a whole (if we presume they don't have just a slacks generator at this point)
2. Keeping customer trust (these were stockings in the photo on the live letter. They were on the female model, however, that is my first impression, which means I was expecting stockings)
3. Less moderator work as a whole (less of these threads!)
4. More variance in glamours
5. ACTUALLY KEEPING IN LINE WITH THE FACT IT IS A COSPLAY GLAMOUR.
6. Making the people who wanted the stockings on their men happy, as very few (if any) people would have quit the game over stockings, and if they did, well, that's their own issue and they probably should have quit the game a long time back.

All of this is literally your opinion, just like the people that have the opposite opinion

Also your points are completely moot

Less dev work as a whole (if we presume they don't have just a slacks generator at this point)

That makes no sense, its double to work to adapt to both genders and different looks of it

Keeping customer trust (these were stockings in the photo on the live letter. They were on the female model, however, that is my first impression, which means I was expecting stockings)

There's been a lot of things on live letters, even on expansion pictures that didnt happen, it never led to "massive community distrust"

3. Less moderator work as a whole (less of these threads!)

Will be replaced by literally any other topic, absolutely moot point

4. More variance in glamours

There's already a lot of variety, this wouldnt help much at all, if anything we should be requesting more glams in general, not just the gendered stuff.

5. ACTUALLY KEEPING IN LINE WITH THE FACT IT IS A COSPLAY GLAMOUR.

Literally doesnt matter.

6. Making the people who wanted the stockings on their men happy, as very few (if any) people would have quit the game over stockings, and if they did, well, that's their own issue and they probably should have quit the game a long time back.

Goes both ways. If you absolutely want tights for men, then just leave?

[EdenElsewhere]

All of this is literally your opinion, just like the people that have the opposite opinion

Um... no?

1. It is proven that they have to make separate leg pieces for lalafells when they do gender variants. They literally have to make two versions for one pair of legs. Even at the most basic level, they are making more work for themselves when they do gender variants.
2. Multiple people went into the Occult crescent expecting the Tycoon legs to be stockings as they are portrayed as stockings in the photo on the patch notes. The fact that these were not stockings on men, is a little bit disheartening.
3. You can't possibly expect for me to believe that if the opposite of this thread (oh why didn't they makes these slacks? guys have enough stockings!) would have reached 23 pages of actual discussion. No. it would have been laughed at for 5 straight pages before being left to die.
4. ... Men literally have no stockings with garterbelts available to them. You either have to fake garterbelts somehow (like using the faire joi with something like the caller sandals) or just have no garterbelts.
5. You can literally go look at Lenna. In Yoshitaka Amano's artwork she is either wearing stockings, or only her undies.
6. This one is more opinion, but honestly, if you wanna leave the game over stockings, very much a you issue.