Thread: 2.0 Movement inertia: Removed

Originally Posted by Radnar

It does make a difference. It introduces a random element to PvP that can and will determine the outcome of fights unfairly. Not only that, but it will impose a forced reaction time penalty on any "reacting" player in PvP-scenarios that is many times longer than the player's own reaction time + latency, preventing them from being able to react properly to any attack - effectively shifting the outcome of any PvP-encounter heavily in the favor of the initiating side and, again, dumb luck.

...wat.

Did you ever feel like those animations actually hindered your movements in 1.0 in any way? Because I didn't. I always saw the animations as a cosmetic sort of thing. My character stopped moving where I intended it to, and it didn't take any longer to get moving (unless I was lagging badly for some reason or my controller crapped out). I don't really know where people are getting some of these things from.

Originally Posted by Radnar

But most importantly: It will not. Be. Fun. Responsive movement controls are a prerequisite to any sort of PvP (and for that matter PvE) that desires to be seen as serious and not luck- or random chance-driven.

Uh... no? That is, unless they implement that WoW crap, where the challenge lies on how fast can you move in erratic directions or how fast you can move your camera in order to keep your target in sight (practically turning the game into more of a TPS kind of thing instead of an RPG). As for PVE, well... I don't even.

Originally Posted by Klefth

Did you ever feel like those animations actually hindered your movements in 1.0 in any way? Because I didn't. I always saw the animations as a cosmetic sort of thing. My character stopped moving where I intended it to, and it didn't take any longer to get moving (unless I was lagging badly for some reason or my controller crapped out). I don't really know where people are getting some of these things from.

Your post makes me think you have never done any PvP before, much less anything on an approaching-competitive level. And that's fine. Not everyone has to PvP. But if you haven't PvP'ed before, then I'd encourage you to play some of the other games out there so you can educate yourself and understand what I am talking about before you respond.

And yes 1.0's movement is a hinderance and would be considered unacceptable in any sort of game which wanted to have its PvP taken seriously.

Edit: As a concession, I will say that SE did a lot to improve the movement controls over 1.0's lifespan from what they were at release. At release they were an abomination, but by server shut-down day they were a lot better.

Uh... no? That is, unless they implement that WoW crap, where the challenge lies on how fast can you move in erratic directions or how fast you can move your camera in order to keep your target in sight (practically turning the game into more of a TPS kind of thing instead of an RPG). As for PVE, well... I don't even.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. You start by describing what I think is supposed to be WoW's PvE, but your final sentence fragment seems to make me think otherwise.

Originally Posted by Radnar

Your post makes me think you have never done any PvP before, much less anything on an approaching-competitive level. And that's fine. Not everyone has to PvP. But if you haven't PvP'ed before, then I'd encourage you to play some of the other games out there so you can educate yourself and understand what I am talking about before you respond.

And yes 1.0's movement is a hinderance and would be considered unacceptable in any sort of game which wanted to have its PvP taken seriously.

Edit: As a concession, I will say that SE did a lot to improve the movement controls over 1.0's lifespan from what they were at release. At release they were an abomination, but by server shut-down day they were a lot better.



I'm not sure what you're talking about here. You start by describing what I think is supposed to be WoW's PvE, but your final sentence fragment seems to make me think otherwise.

First off, no, I don't really have a lot of PvP experience. PvP is not exactly what I look for in a MMORPG, and I haven't bothered with it since waaaaay back in Ragnarok Online. What I was talking about at the end of my post was WoW's PvP, solely based on what I have seen of it. I wouldn't bother with it, because, well... pretty much everything I've seen is outright hideous to me. All I've managed to see is pretty much what I described: people running about in erratic ways while chasing their target and trying to keep 'em in sight and slamming away at one or two keys as soon as their spells/abilities are back up, which takes like a second or so. If the PvE there also ends up that way, well... wow... then that is just sad.

I'd seriously like to know how the animations were a hinderance, btw, seeing as they didn't really affect movement at all and were a purely aesthetical thing.

Originally Posted by Klefth

First off, no, I don't really have a lot of PvP experience. PvP is not exactly what I look for in a MMORPG, and I haven't bothered with it since waaaaay back in Ragnarok Online. What I was talking about at the end of my post was WoW's PvP, solely based on what I have seen of it. I wouldn't bother with it, because, well... pretty much everything I've seen is outright hideous to me. All I've managed to see is pretty much what I described: people running about in erratic ways while chasing their target and trying to keep 'em in sight and slamming away at one or two keys as soon as their spells/abilities are back up, which takes like a second or so. If the PvE there also ends up that way, well... wow... then that is just sad.

I'd seriously like to know how the animations were a hinderance, btw, seeing as they didn't really affect movement at all and were a purely aesthetical thing.

Thank you for being honest. However, you must realize that saying you have no experience with and no interest in PvP does not lend credence to your position.

You say that you do not understand how the animations were a hinderance. I am telling you they are. I have tried to explain in the most general terms possible how they are, both for you and others previously on page 8, but there is only so much raw explaination can do if you do not care to understand the foundation-level material.

I would encourage you to go play any sort of competitive-PvP game out there - be it SC2, LOL, CS, GW2, or, yes, even WoW - and actually spend time trying to get good at it. Fight with good players, and talk with them about it. After about three months, think back about how your gameplay experience would be "changed" if, every time you changed direction, there was a game-enforced 1-second lag time. At that point, you will probably at least understand what I am saying, even if you don't agree with it (I acknowledge that there are some people out there who like their PvP encounters to be more RNG-driven than others).

Edit:

Originally Posted by Aenarion

Please don't talk as if all pvp are twitch-based, because they aren't.

Please show me where I claimed all PvP is twitch-based.

Originally Posted by Radnar

Thank you for being honest. However, you must realize that saying you have no experience with and no interest in PvP does not lend credence to your position.

You say that you do not understand how the animations were a hinderance. I am telling you they are. I have tried to explain in the most general terms possible how they are, both for you and others previously on page 8, but there is only so much raw explaination can do if you do not care to understand the foundation-level material.

I would encourage you to go play any sort of competitive-PvP game out there - be it SC2, LOL, CS, GW2, or, yes, even WoW - and actually spend time trying to get good at it. Fight with good players, and talk with them about it. After about three months, think back about how your gameplay experience would be "changed" if, every time you changed direction, there was a game-enforced 1-second lag time. At that point, you will probably at least understand what I am saying, even if you don't agree with it (I acknowledge that there are some people out there who like their PvP encounters to be more RNG-driven than others).

Edit:

Please show me where I claimed all PvP is twitch-based.

I am a LoL player, but I can't really see how that matters here, since that belongs to a whole different genre. Unless you're trying to compare a strategic MOBA with an MMORPG here?

Anyway, the animations would be a hinderance IF they actually affected your movement, but, again, they didn't, so what exactly is the issue with them? They were purely aesthetic. Characters would start and stop moving when they had to. There simply were start and stop animations, but you could start moving again right away anyway. How does that hinder you at all?

Originally Posted by Aenarion

Of course.

I see you have quoted an earlier post of mine, but I don't see how it responds to my original question. Responsive movement controls are a prerequisite to any sort of PvP.

Edit: Alright, unless maybe we're talking about World of Tanks. But those are tanks, man.