Healer aggroing DG trend

[shiftweave]

Tank dashes can only move you to an enemy within range, while some healers and DPS jobs have untargeted or party-targeted dashes, allowing them to easily outrun the tank even if the tank is sprinting and using their dash whenever possible. That's not a skill issue, that's just how the game works.

...Moreover, the type of player who outruns the tank on purpose is also usually the type of player who stops attacking and runs away from a pack when the last few enemies still have about a fifth of their HP left, allowing that player to get even further ahead of anyone who's still contributing (assuming the last pack of the pull wasn't directly in front of a wall).

If the pack is going to die from ranged dps before you reach the wall then the tank should also be running. FWIW when I do this I don't lose damage and I'm still contributing, because I save resources like toxikon/uncoiled fury/katon for the gcd that I'm leaving. Given that these players are trying to speed the dungeon up it's kind of bizarre to assume they stop contributing. That would make it slower.

[ConantSivrha]

Given that these players are trying to speed the dungeon up it's kind of bizarre to assume they stop contributing. That would make it slower.

It is bizarre, but I see people do it. I don't mean ranged players repositioning themselves while continuing to attack, but players (including melee DPS) running away from a still-living pack while visibly not attacking.

Tanks also have far more gap closers than most other classes. The only class that has an non targeted dash with more than one charge is DNC

More charges can sometimes compensate for the inherent advantage of an untargeted dash, but not always.

Unlike enemy-targeted dashes, an untargeted dash can be used as soon as it's ready (allowing the user to start its cooldown immediately), and always makes use of its full range regardless of enemy positioning.

If someone is far enough ahead to pull before you, your gap closer can only move you to the enemies trailing behind them, which allows you to take aggro but not to get in front. If you took a detour for a chest or had any similar delay, someone can get far enough ahead that the enemies they've pulled won't even be in your range until they stop moving.

Regardless my point was simply if you are the tank then run. There is no reason to leisurely stroll along while everyone else is running especially if you then proceed to get mad everyone is ahead of you. And if someone pulls ahead then just take it off them

Sure, but "press the sprint button, you should always be in front of the party" is a different statement with a different meaning than "use sprint and take aggro off of people who pull ahead". The first implies that people can't pull ahead if the tank is playing properly.

I take issue with this "if someone is ahead of you, you must be making an easily-corrected mistake" cliche because it's misinformation which directly reinforces the behaviors that those who repeat it think they're criticizing. If tanks have no good way of keeping themselves at the front, "tanks who fall behind are bad" and "pulling ahead as a DPS/healer is bad" are functionally the same belief from two different perspectives. If someone has been told they need to be in front to be a good tank, but another player can directly prevent them from being in front, they're going to feel like they're being sabotaged every time another player pulls ahead.

I would argue the real counter to "this DPS/healer is sabotaging me by pulling" is actually "it's not your problem".

You should sprint. You should use your gap closer when possible. If someone else has aggro, you should take aggro as soon as you can. But other players are in control of their characters. They chose to run into that pack, and they chose to drag it away from you instead of towards you. It's not your problem until you get there.

[Arohk]

Sure, but "press the sprint button, you should always be in front of the party" is a different statement with a different meaning than "use sprint and take aggro off of people who pull ahead".

If someone has been told they need to be in front to be a good tank, but another player can directly prevent them from being in front, they're going to feel like they're being sabotaged every time another player pulls ahead.

Both statements are true in some way,

when i am tanking a dungeon, there is almost never a case where some DPS is running ahead of me.
This works because:

there is an obvious wall that prevents them from running ahaead, i start running when the last enemy is ABOUT to die, not when they are all dead, which gives me a small lead to the other people, i instantly use sprint when i get out of combat (unless its on cooldown).
I only do 1-2 aoes to hit all the enemies and keep running to the next pack.

BUT IF:
there is still somehow a dps infront and pulls, i just do an AOE anyway and get the aggro of themm, so there is really no issue.

[Inanegrain]

Tank dashes can only move you to an enemy within range, while some healers and DPS jobs have untargeted or party-targeted dashes, allowing them to easily outrun the tank even if the tank is sprinting and using their dash whenever possible. That's not a skill issue, that's just how the game works.

...Moreover, the type of player who outruns the tank on purpose is also usually the type of player who stops attacking and runs away from a pack when the last few enemies still have about a fifth of their HP left, allowing that player to get even further ahead of anyone who's still contributing (assuming the last pack of the pull wasn't directly in front of a wall).

You must be an absolute snail if a sch can outrun you when they have no such tool.

You have much more tools as a tank to stay ahead of the group.

[Eastwall]

You can act like some jp tank l met. I pulled the extra pack for the tank, kept the tank alive. Apparently the tank didn't like it, Then the tank just left,lol.

[Random_Canadian]

Your job is a Tank, not a Pull. If you take aggro and hit your buttons then nobody is "taking your job". I play all roles plenty, if I'm tanking then I'm more than happy for a DPS/Healer that can get ahead of me to pull for me so I can aggro the pack faster and get them grouped, they're extra mitigation for me until I get in range to grab aggro. Bonus points if they pop Arm's Length. I already use Sprint as soon as I can, since it came free with my hotbar. Aside from maybe 3 dungeons a reasonably geared tank in Heavensward and above should be more than easily wall to wall pulling anyway.

It's especially good for a SGE to pull because they can do more damage in packs with Toxicon than they do with their normal AoE so they can pop two shields for 2 Toxicons while running to the packs.

[Exmo]

The first time the healer pulls, it's passive aggressive behavior. The correct thing to do instead is for the healer to communicate in chat. If a healer repeatedly pulls more in the same dungeon, then it's malicious.

[Wyndam]

The discourse around this has gotten wild, in my opinion. Tanks are subjected to a lot of abuse from their fellow players and I see daily "You Pull, You Tank" complaint threads side by side with "Tankxiety" threads where everyone makes these super understanding claims. Then you get in game and see every single roulette on the list having Tank as the adventurer in need. It seems like a huge disconnect.

Most dungeons, at some point or another, literally the entire party is autorunning at a wall waiting for it to open. The entire group pops sprint the second the wall goes down. But some jobs have dashes that don't require a target so they use them to get ahead and then they have ranged attacks on top of that. They are just objectively faster than the fastest tank.

I can virtually guarantee that every tank, at some point in their career, has caught flak because a mob got loose. Someone took a hit and, no matter how small, they thought it was the tank's fault. Maybe they were good and thought to bring the mob back to the tank instead of trying to kite but, most likely, they ran away like a drunk toddler resisting bedtime. Then not only do they take the extra hits, the mob takes extra time to die because it was separated from the pack. A conscientious person, as people who play support roles tend to be, will remember this. They may even take it personally. If you make it hard for them, that is where Tankxiety comes from and that is how the YPYT attitude is born.

The problem is the tank and the puller are not the only people in the dungeon. The "YPYT" attitude from the tank is griefing because it harms more than just the player who pulls, it harms everyone by wasting their time. The person pulling for the tank is still being rude.

[Rin_Sato]

The first time the healer pulls, it's passive aggressive behavior. The correct thing to do instead is for the healer to communicate in chat. If a healer repeatedly pulls more in the same dungeon, then it's malicious.

I'm inclined to disagree, if the healer pulls more in the same dungeon without any issues, how is it malicious?
They'd be making the dungeon go faster, not slower, if they are really the ones pulling... (Assuming they're grouping the mobs, which I imagine they would be doing)

Wouldn't the players actively choosing to not play the game be the malicious ones in this case?

[NovaStella]

It's because the healer is capable of handling more than you're pulling. Pull more next pull. Your healer can clearly out heal the damage from what you pulled, what they pulled, and heal both you and them instead of just you. Make it easier on them and pull more yourself so they just have to heal you.